I don't like these kinds of articles because they always have an undertone of making it a matter of personal consumer choice as opposed to systemic change.
this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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Systemic change doesn’t happen without political will. Political will depends on personal opinions. Try to bring in systemic change with an election win but not overwhelming support then you get reactionary backlash like we’re seeing right now.
Which is why I think it's better to start with some kind of populist attack on the excesses of the super rich. How many beef burgers was Katy Perry's publicity stunt in low orbit?
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WRI published an interesting article on this subject a week or so ago:
https://www.wri.org/insights/climate-impact-behavior-shifts
Systemic pressure [e.g. voting / collective action] creates enabling conditions, but individuals need to complete the loop with our daily choices. It's a two-way street — bike lanes need cyclists, plant-based options need people to consume them. When we adopt these behaviors, we send critical market signals that businesses and governments respond to with more investment.
WRI's research quantifies the individual actions that matter most. While people worldwide tend to vastly overestimate the impact of some highly visible activities, such as recycling, our analysis reveals four significant changes that deliver meaningful emissions reductions.
I like the bikelane analogy, actually.
It shows clearly that (a) yes you do need activism (like Critical Mass) and a few crazy ones that will bike regardless of the adverse conditions, (b) political will to shift towards bikelanes, (c ) wider adoption but also sustained activism to build better bikelanes (not painted gutters on the side of stroads, but protected lanes, connected with transit).
We definitely do not lack (a), but (c ) FOLLOWS (b). If you want to go from "just the crazies" to "everyone and their 5 year old", systemic change needs to be backed by very concrete top-down action.
Without very meaningful (b), telling people to change their eating habits while stuff is otherwise the same is like telling people to take their kids to school on bikes next to crazy SUV traffic: it's not happening.
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If we simply stopped subsidizing meat consumption entirely the rising cost would shift more people to plant based diets.
Nope, the government would get replaced at the next election, though.
But it has to be both if only because somebody has to show the way. Governments are not going to clamp down on meat ag when the whole electorate is cheerfully eating meat.
Personally I see the argument "I can't do anything, it's about the system!" as a extremely convenient cop-out. Any system is made up of individuals.
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Oh boy, the red meaters are going to downvote the shit out of this.
Meh. I wouldn’t eat chicken these days either. You should see how it’s made. Corporate farming is abhorrent.
I'm kinda in this camp as well. Barely eat any meat and the meat I do buy is from small local producers where I can meet (hihi) and greet the animals.
How does that work? Do you never eat meat when you go out?
There aren't a ton of places in the world with a good supply of vegetarian/vegan food AND enough of an ag industry you can go around petting your meat.
A majority of restaurants where I live offer at least one vegetarian option on their menu, and commonly also a vegan option (they might be the same)
Going out I have lots of vegan options so that isn't an issue generally. And am not rigid in my principles, being a bit moderate makes me less of an obnoxious cunt. Easier to cook for, take along on outings etc.
If I hold hard on any principle it is that to not let perfect stand in the way of good. Being able to do 90% ethical consumption I find to be much better than failing to be 100% pure.
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i literally only have meat on special occasions because of this, the entire meat industry is horrible for animals, for your health (red meat) and for the environment.
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Those of us in the USA should be asking if we think meat will be safe now that many regulations have been removed.
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They've gotta check with best friend's cousins former roommate who runs a "sustainable" slaughter house where they "exclusively" (once a year) source their meat.
This has been my rule of thumb for a while. It should be clear as day that 9 billion people cannot all chow on hefty ruminant mammals. We would run out of land even before it cooked the climate.
The problem with chicken farming is the cruelty.
No, its also the environmental impact. We passed 350 ppm.
The article is nonsense because it must be zero. We're already in a positive feedback loop. We have to reduce all emissions to zero to mitigate as much as possible. There is no amount of emissions that are acceptable.
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If you’re only eating two breasts a week, people can spring for the free range stuff
The article barely touches on fish. It suggests fish, eggs, and dairy are mostly fine, but doesn't explicitly say that.
Dairy has the same problems as beef. Remember, you also have to grow food to feed the food, so it's inherently a net loss of calories.
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Well, beef is already so damn expensive that I can't remember the last time we bought it.
Meat-wise It's just been a steady cycle of chicken, turkey, and pork at our house
I had no idea we were so environmentally avant-garde
Good on you!
When my wife and I started being conscious about our food intake, it wasn't too bad to give up red meat, and shrink meat portions / add veggies.
It took us months of learning / trying new recipes to actually get to the point where we were consistently eating fewer than 14 meat-centric meals a week (lunch/dinner). Once we got comfortable cooking plant based dishes though, we had built up so much momentum that we went from 1 or 2 plant based meals a week to 100% in just a few weeks.
It takes a long time to build up that comfort level, but at some point a switch just flips and the new "normal" is just as easy as what you were used to.
You're not avantgarde. Veganism is a thing.
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Has any society in human history been able to afford eating meat regularly? My great great great great grandfather’s journals talk about a lot of stew and veggies and he was wealthy enough that he founded a small city. We never ate that much meat.
Typically we don't need to eat meat when we are wealthy; we eat unsustainable meat when there is a famine because we must.
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Yes, Inuit for example have a diet largely based on fish and meat. Steppe herders like mongols are another example of a culture with regular meat consumption.
Medieval Barcelona had a higher meat consumption than today. The article also gives other examples of high meat consumption from medieval England and Vikings.
Subsidies and very, very cruel industrialization (torturous conditions).
If laws were just and corporate socialism was just, it wouldn't be possible for most people.
The most important part: what went into the calculation? There are plenty of things besides food that impact environmental sustainability, is diet alone sufficient to achieve it? Or did they just throw the rest out?
Can we please get moving on the lab grown meats already. This shit is getting depressing.
Vegetables aren't so scary, are they?
Being vegan now for 6+ years seeing articles and comments about meat is dystopian as fuck. It only took me a week to go from full-blown carnivore to vegan so people struggling with this always gets me.
Everyone is different. I was never vegan, rather considered myself plant based because I allowed both local eggs and local honey in my diet (still do) but no other animal products. Did this for many years until a coworker made a lunch of local hunted venison for a staff meal, and well, I'm mostly against the industrial farming practices, this was technically ethical hunting. This man was part of our local indigenous tribe, so I indulged as not to be rude. It was a great meal honestly. Everyone gawked I was eating meat. And I spoke often about the industrial process of meat farming to try and educate, but ultimately if these people wanted to feed their kids cheetos wrapped in bacon for breakfast, nothing I could say would change that, and its not my place to chastize.
I never understood those who chastized others for trying.
Vegans hated me because I like using local honey in spring to help with my hay fever. Which I have right now :( Nevermind I haven't had beef in years, I eat eggs from pet hens so a vegan gonna scream at me online. Yay. That will motivate me.. sure thing.
The method of education isn't going to work, and culture tied to meat cooking is so strong. Personally, giving up cheese, tbh, was really hard. Hummus wraps were the only thing that worked for me to satiate that urge for cheese. Vegan cheeses isnt it, idk why hummus wraps worked for me but it was much harder to give up cheese than butter or meat. I had to put a lot of effort to not cave to that kind of dairy at first. And im sure others have their own hang ups as well, it can be difficult, like quitting a vice.
Cultural change is slow (historically).
To note, After a number of years, a vegan friend of mine stopped being vegan. I think he was depressed, idk, but- we went to Wendy's. I wasnt going to get anything, but he prodded, and I fucking caved to a pub burger with bacon on a pretzel roll and.. my mouth had an orgasm, I swear to god. I got three more that week, realized they really do engineer this stuff to be so addictive. I questioned myself, what thefuck was doing? I had to stop this, and cut the behavior out just as fast, only because I could identify what was happening. Not everyone can.
Idk my point other than everyones journey will be different, but shaming folks isnt the ticket to healier environmental impacts always. Like I said, certsin vegans have shamed me for still consuming eggs and honey like it wasnt hard for me to give up cheese. Like telling an alcoholic they still suck because they drink soda. Its defeating.
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I've moved to eating more non-meat than meat and skipping beef at home when I do, but I have never been able to fully convert. I was a pescatarian for almost 1.5 years in my youth and that was mostly doable, but still very tough and never really got easier.
A number of the existing alternatives involve gluten which I can't have anymore (I rather liked seitan when I had it).
I currently have a vegetable farm and, for as much of the year as I can, eat what I grow outside for veg so they're certainly not scary.
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We really don't need lab grown stuff when the meat alternatives on the market now are already so good
If you haven't tried any yet, I highly recommend Impossible meat, it's virtually indistinguishable from the real thing. Quorn is another great option.
And on a budget, Seitan is also fantastic.
I have to disagree with this. Personally, I think every chicken alternative I have tried has been bad, and more expensive. I certainly havent tried everything, but I try what I see readily available to me.
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