I will personally execute one ~~hostage~~ vote every ~~hour~~ four years until they give in to my demands. Lmk when the democrats come to the table with a serious offer, then we'll talk.
this post was submitted on 07 May 2025
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I'm pretty pissed at Dearborn Michigan residents
Astroturfed groups run by foreign actors and domestic terrorists admit they got the result they actually wanted, which was a Nazi controlled government.
Fuck off with that shitty distraction.
The article itself, several paragraphs down, admits you can't attribute trump's win to Palestine activists:
"It’s hard to determine just how much of an impact efforts like Uncommitted or Abandon Harris had in the election results. After all, exit polls showed that voters were motivated more by the economy than by foreign policy. But in battleground states with large Arab-American populations, like Michigan, data suggests that the Israel-Hamas conflict turned people away from Harris. In Dearborn, the country’s largest Arab-majority city, election data showed that Trump won 42 percent of the vote while Harris received 36 percent—significantly less than the 69 percent that Biden earned in 2020.
But the activists note that it wasn’t just Dearborn and other Muslim-American enclaves that moved toward Republicans in 2024—nearly every district in the country moved to the right as well."
You can't attribute it to any one thing. They absolutely contributed. If Democrats lost by double digit percentage. I'd say they didn't contribute that much. Trump won by just a few percentage overall. The activists were clutch in fascisms victory.
On the surface, I get it. Biden and Harris were "optically in charge". Just not really in charge when it comes to Israel. Congress is. It's capture by Israel is pervasive and systemic. Changing out the president was never going to make it better.
Worse yet, Republicans have a super power. They get to be lawless while Democrats must be perfect. And in that way Republicans hypocritically weaponized and stirred the pot along with foreign actors. For something they were just as guilty of. This systemic problem was placed solely on the shoulders of the president. And not just by the activists. But by the wealthy owners of mass media looking for another tax cut to horde more wealth. Donald trump telling Bibi to ramp up the genocide went so minimally covered that many Palestinian citizens voted for him. Thinking he was better. The activists were played and manipulated masterfully. And all it took was Consolidated ownership of the media. Propaganda Works folks.
It’s extremely dishonest to frame not enabling genocide as not being perfect. No one excepted perfection, but a fraction of ethics and morals.
It's extremely dishonest to have framed it as a choice in the election. Yet, here we are with fascism. I would have loved for ending genocide to have been on the ballot. It wasn't. Never was. But making it worse was. And we got it.
First, it is the job of the political party to convince the voters to vote for them. But even then, we don't actually know if the outcome for Gaza would be any different under Harris (I'm only referring to the two campaign ads shown, ignore the commentary after). Maybe the Democrats, with an eye toward the next election, could have said "hey we're gonna lose Michigan unless you take a tougher line with Netanyahu".
I don't think it took much of a "masterful play" or much influence at all for the Palestinian and middle eastern origin populations in Michigan to demobilize or protest vote. They had been watching intense and horrific destruction of their families and place of origin for more than a year at that point and they watched Biden, with Harris as VP, transfer weapons and funding to Israel while reiterating their support for Israel and weakly "warning" them about going too far.
It's a bit infantilizing to say that the Palestinian-Americans "got played", as if they couldn't see what was happening in one of the central issues of their lives and make a choice.
First, it is the job of the political party to convince the voters to vote for them.
It's also the publics job to be informed.
But even then, [we don't actually know if the outcome for Gaza would be any different under Harris
Even if it was identical under harris. It was still better under biden. He wasn't actively cheering the genocide on etc. And at least gave some appearance of trying to support relief and peace. Trump can't even.
I don't think it took much of a "masterful play" or much influence at all for the Palestinian and middle eastern origin populations in Michigan to demobilize or protest vote. They had been watching intense and horrific destruction of their families and place of origin for more than a year at that point and they watched Biden, with Harris as VP, transfer weapons and funding to Israel while [reiterating their support for Israel and weakly "warning" them about going too far
That was our entire government. Not Biden and Harris. Focusing solely on them in the face of nothing but worse alternatives. Was an extremely bonehead move. The fact even with hindsight and in the face of this glaring failure. People like yourself still cling to it with a sunk cost mentality. Shows just how masterful the manipulation was. That you feel no responsibility or remorse. For helping to Usher fascism in. Yes the Democrats did plenty on their own for that as well. But the fact that to a person. I can't find a single one of you who is heavily activist against Biden and Harris that can even admit the flaws of that plan. Or acknowledge that there are sincere and honest desire to do good was manipulated for the worst.
It's also the publics job to be informed.
We'd get an informed public if people had enough time, material security, and agency to get involved in politics.
Even if it was identical under harris. It was still better under biden. He wasn't actively cheering the genocide on etc. And at least gave some appearance of trying to support relief and peace.
This is infuriating. The appearance of trying to support relief and peace? These people's families are dying. The US is the number one funder and arms dealer to Israel. The few, milquetoast statements Biden/Harris made were only political cover to the overwhelming support for the genocide that the US provided. Look, you don't have to personally care about this issue beyond appearances if you want, but it is a central issue to voters in a particularly politically-important location.
That you feel no responsibility or remorse. For helping to Usher fascism in. [etc]
Don't make assumptions: I was not an activist in Michigan. I didn't tell anyone not to vote for Biden/Harris. I voted for them, even in a place where it doesn't matter. I'm just a stranger on the internet who is tired of Democrats paying more attention to the right than to, well, even the center, let alone the left. They know that there is no alternative vote for us, so they keep tacking right to try and pick off a few so-called "swing" voters. But, doing that demobilizes their base! You need to get people excited to vote, volunteer, donate, and campaign. It's basic electoral strategy. They refuse to learn that lesson and so they lose to someone who has a smaller, but rabid base.
Also, why are we focusing on only the Palestinian voters in Michigan as the ones who lost the election when plenty of other voters there and other swing districts also didn't vote Biden/Harris? Because they're "supposed to" vote dem? Assumptions like that are part of why the democratic party loses elections to Trump. They made a decision to cater more to pro-Israel voters than voters who wanted to at least halt the genocide, it was an important strategic misstep. Zooming out, why aren't dems able to contest more districts? There's plenty of blame to go around.
Finally, if you think this one thing is what ushered fascism in, you haven't been paying attention to the last 30 years of politics. Trump's election is not an aberration, it's an expression of a large and growing right-wing and fascist movement in the US.
We'd get an informed public if people had enough time, material security, and agency to get involved in politics.
They are supposed to answer to us. Therefore it is our failing that they do not. We cannot expect them to give that sort of Education without fighting for it. And unironically they didn't.
This is infuriating.
I agree. But it is also reality. When Fox news coverage of your protests is largely sterile and neutral. You know you've just fucked up. You should immediately start asking yourself what are you missing here. What do you do to adjust. Which most activists couldn't do. I mean I have no idea if they all honestly thought that somehow Fox News and all these fascist media Outlets echoing their claims were on their side. That they weren't the Romney to the fascist Obama this time. Please proceed governor, own yourself. Romney is a skeezy little cultish snake. But he wasn't strictly wrong. Though that didn't save him. Even if it worked in our favor that one time.
Don't make assumptions: I was not an activist in Michigan. I didn't tell anyone not to vote for Biden/Harris
If you helped to amplify the one-sided accusations. You share a part in it. It doesn't matter if you're in Michigan or not. It doesn't matter if you were in a red state, or a blue state. If you didn't then don't get upset about people pointing out that people who did are responsible.
In my 50 years on this planet. Those of us who are not fascist have owned ourselves repeatedly over nonsensical Purity tests. Especially when it didn't matter. Such as this last election. This will just be another one for the list in the history books. If they allow us to keep history books too much longer.
I can see we're not going to reach an agreement on how to look at this particular instance. Still, I wish you well and I hope people like you and me can find a way to effectively fight fascism going forward.
100%. I know that as someone who is somewhat on the spectrum. People sometimes misunderstand or take offense to the way I choose to phrase things. It was never my intent to imply that we shouldn't criticize Biden or Harris. Simply that the hyper focus on them would be to our detriment as it was. That many people's honest and sincere intent to help people was hijacked, as it was. Used to get the worst possible person in office.
The fact that anyone. Not just Palestinians thought that voting for Trump was somehow better than voting for Harris or Biden speaks to a complete and utter failure of messaging. I'd like to think that we would do better in the future. But seeing how we did dukakis, gore, kerry and so many others dirty with our inability to focus or message. I really don't think it's going to change. And that if we're lucky enough to have an election in 2028. That we are going to struggle as hard as ever to keep the fascists out. Regardless of all the damage they're going to do. But now is definitely the time to start planning and building for it.
Congratulations, you killed Gaza.
So tired of centrist whining and refusal to acknowledge what they did. If they hadnt backed a genocide we wouldnt all be in this mess. And they did that because they were too cowardly and unprincipled to stand up and stand with the right side of history. How much hubris and stupidity do you need to try to run a pro genocide campaign from the party that thinks of itself as the left.
They weren't "backing genocide". They repeatedly called for a cease fire, hostage release, and two state solution. That's 180° reversed from genocide.
Biden pretended to care whenever he was in front of a camera. Then he made sure Israel was protected and well supplied, and had all the support the US military could give them.
Because Israel does have the right to defend itself from repeated missile attacks from Iran:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2024_Iranian_strikes_against_Israel
The fact that they diverted our military support into a genocide is on Israel, not Biden.
Did they have the right to conduct the Nakba? The thing where they stole Palestinians land, murdered a bunch, conducted biological terrorism and herded them into armed prison camps where they casually kill them and block everything about their daily life?
You know, the stuff that led to Hamas existing in the first place, and Iran launching those missiles. Was that all just fine? You want to start this with the first missile launched against Israel, it seems.
If you're going to go back to the Nakba you might as well go back to the beginning of time when primitive tribes were fighting and bleeding over the same land, it's not relevant to the current discussion.
Israel is committing a genocide, that needs to stop.
At the same time, the world decided Israel had a right to exist following the Holocaust.
Biden and Co killed Gaza and liberals allowed them to do it by refusing to ever hold them accountable while spreading their lies of a ceasefire. 50 years of no accountability gave us incremental fascism.
. . . Because Gaza was going to be saved before Trump?
With a President who had been campaigning on a cease fire and two state solution? Much more likely than "clear 'em out and build a beach front golf course" Trump.
The same president who claimed he told Bibi to cut it out, then staffers said he didn't.
"Staffers" according to a non-credible news site.
Jordan, we know each other better than that.
No, seriously, the only site I've seen reporting that is Mondoweiss and they're a known bullshit source.
And you know I hate biased mbfc! And mondoweiss is factual, every time I manually fact checked them, personally. Nonetheless, here:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/z-magazine/
Detailed Report Bias Rating: LEFT Factual Reporting: HIGH Country: USA MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE Media Type: Website Traffic/Popularity: Minimal Traffic MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY
"Had been campaigning on" is a joke after Biden spent his term bending over backwards to get weapons and funding to Israel, veto UN resolutions in opposition, and avoid pressuring Netanyahu
Harris is not Biden.
Yet she still took AIPAC money.
Sure she did, if you go against AIPAC you have little hope of winning.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/13/progressives-aipac-elections-threat-00173709
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/aipac-israel-spending-democratic-primaries-00144552
She was his VP!
Yup, and every month from becoming the nominee until the election she campaigned on a cease fire, hostage release, and two state solution.
August: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
To which the typical complaint is "But, but, she didn't enact policy!" from people who have no clue what the job duties of the VP actually are.
If your theory was that she was going to change her mind, surprise us all, and start supporting gaza, she had her chance. About two weeks before the election the checks were cashed and she could have started saying gaza was a genocide. You know, following the actual laws she swore to uphold.
It would have been too late for funding cuts to kill her campaign and she would have won. But she chose not to do that.
Her husband is a zionist.
Her brother in law campaign manager is a zionist.
She said she would not change a single thing Biden had done.
She kicked every pro palestine voice out of the convention, in August.
She shut down anyone who brought up gaza.
she began every answer about the war on gaza by starting with, "israel had a right to defend itself".
And then you claim we are harping on a powerless VP, when we are in fact harping on a presidential candidate. Also, the VP does not serve at the will of the president. Harris didnt have to follow Bidens directions or lead on anything. Thats not how the office of an elected politician works. A president cannot fire or discipline a vp. The best they can do is not invite them to meetings. Running for president did Harris have time for meetings? No. she didnt. And the Biden election money pot had already been transferred and spent.
Your idea that she would have changed sides is nothing but hopium that flies in the face of numerous well established facts that show she was never going to stand against genocide. If elected she would have been talking about funding for her next election. Against all these facts, do you have a single piece of proof that she would have changed her mind? Even a single faint shred of a piece?
No. Sorry man you just dont. I know you wish it was true, I can understand that. She chose the genocide against the wishes of a sizeable enough number of her base voters that she lost.
dont you worry though, the zionists have this country by the balls and they'll run another zionist war crimes supporter the first chance they get. You can vote for that one.
She didn't have to change her mind, her position all along was:
- Ceasefire
- Hostage release
- Two state solution
Biden lied about working on a ceasefire, just like he lied about having red lines. You still believe huh.
Harris is not Biden.
Boggles the fuck out of me how people are still defending Democrats on this subject.
With Biden, watching this unfold felt like that scene from Saving Private Ryan. "Shhh..."
Anti-iraq war protesters killed John Kerry's presidential bid and led to 4 more years of Bush. Did that mean the democrats ran away from the issue and everyone supported the Iraq War?
No, we changed leadership and polling so much so that we finally got out of the war. The option shifted so hard that in 2015 the only republican in a huge field of candidates that said the Iraq war was a failure won the primary, the whitehouse, and (eventually after he left) got us finally out of Afghanistan. (Yes I know that was Biden, but was odd that Obama didn't do it).
Anti-iraq war protesters killed John Kerry's presidential bid and led to 4 more years of Bush.
The Swift Boat shit was 100% a conservative op. They were not anti-Iraq in the slightest.
Uh... But genocide?