was making 125k. Got laid off. Interviewed at another company and asked for 200k. Ended up with 185k. Got laid off again and still haven't been able to find a job. Ups and downs :/
I played a negotiation game of spending two weeks of research to explain to my company that I should be paid $165k, based on roles similar to me.
They said, "Well those are in expensive cities." And I said, "They're all remote jobs. And they're all hiring."
They came to the table with 155k, which was 30k more than a month prior. The scary part was a few months later, fucking Musk fired a bunch of Twitter people, and triggered the layoffs. So now I can't do that negotiation again.
Gottem.
So now I can't do that negotiation again.
You can and you should. Musk's layoffs and the ones that followed are a coordinated press campaign. The total impact on unfilled jobs for IT professional programmers was a tenth of one percent.
But according to the news cycles, without Musk's microservices there's plenty of us to go around now. /s
Yes. Companies are hiring slower right now because there's less venture capital money sloshing around, but they're accumulating company-ending-event technology debt while they do it.
Mark my words they will be desperate for your talents and paying accordingly soon. I predict another big hike in base pay as the game of chicken ends in a mad scramble. We will also see more companies paying long term consulting rates instead of staff rates for IT solutions.
Source: As a developer who hires developers, I'm watching this trainwreck from both sides of the track.
I've heard from some friends/family that are trying to break into entry level cybersecurity or programming roles and it's extremely difficult right now, why do you think there seems to be such a high demand for skilled workers but seemingly no demand for entry level?
When someone asks what you were paid or what your salary expectations are, ask them what the budget is for the role. They have one. They will not want to tell you, and you shouldn’t tell them your expectations
So, what happens then?
They offer someone else the job
Yeah, exactly. People upvoted this take that won't work for 99.9999% of people lol
I did this several times and never got a proper reply. They say stuff like "It depends on the person and is calculated individually". You can't really argue over that unless you're willing to be very pushy or just straight up walk away from the table - which is something you don't want to do in most cases.
Why not be pushy? Why not be willing to walk away? Everyone’s situation differs but a server tech is not going to be lacking for work opportunities. If it’s calculated individually, you say “ok what would it be in my case?”
If they say “it depends on what you’re paid now” that’s a HUGE red flag and you should walk
Not everyone's opportunities are the same. If you can afford to be pushy and can afford to walk away, then sure - do that. However, I personally would not put the whole opportunity on the line and walk away just because a recruiter won't tell me a range. In my last interview they didn't give me any range, while I gave them my expectation, which was a bit inflated, and they just accepted my offer. Could I get more if I knew the range? Probably. But I can't be mad at them, as they matched my expectation. And I enjoy the job so far.
It all depends on the situation, as you also mentioned. I'm just arguing that saying "walk away if they don't tell you a range" is a bit of an exaggeration and might do more harm to some people than good.
even then, a position may not be for a certain level so they’re can be a fairly wide band of pay depending on how the interview goes.
i think most folks vastly overthink it. just ask for the money you want to make. either it’s in the ballpark or it’s not. all this “don’t say a number first” stuff is bullshit imo.
you definitely do want to know if your desired pay matches their range though. that’s very important.
You just learned a valuable lesson. Always add like at least 25% to what you think you can get. Unless you are very aware of what the salary range should be. They'll almost always make a counter offer if you've gone over. It's hard to walk it back if you lowball yourself though.
Hell yeah this is the way. Negotiate for 25% more, and expect to land at 10-15% more.
I like the tip someone said where if they want you to name a number, you reply with, "Im currently in the middle of interviews with positions whose salary range from (range 1 to range 2)".
140-150 is pretty average for a senior DevOps/AWS person. Coding and terrorism/AWS will pay more then networking in general.
Did you maybe mean to say Terraform, or am I missing a key aspect of my job role?
Lmaoooooo yes. Although some tf is terrorism.
lmao I was thinking the same. Like damn I gotta start working some on some defense contractor stuff
99% of the time, the only way people get a raise around these parts is by switching jobs. There's never budget until you resign.
I haven't seen any huge increase 'cos I don't have access to manager's records.
It’s only a sample of one but I almost doubled my salary by switching jobs. I was bullied and harassed in a shitty startup for more than 3 years. I got fat, almost had a depression and I was not doing anything interesting. Even my skills were decreasing.
A bunch of managers asked me once to do something illegal. HR was also telling me to do this because "it’s an order from the bosses." That was the last straw and I told them to fuck off, and I resigned.
I was underpaid at this shitty company, but I accidentally found another job at a good company with nice people. My salary almost doubled overnight. I don’t want that much money but it was nice "fuck you" to my previous manager that I deeply thanked for being such an asshole.
Two years ago our software lead left. Me with 3 years experience was the most knowledgeable person on the team. He left because we had gotten acquired. 3 months later they gave me a raise from 92 to 103k, which I showed annoyance with. 6 months later the new company decided to throw money at the people they couldn't afford to lose so I went to 128k. 6 months later I went to 143k
This is on a small team at a government contractor
TLDR: 51K (56%) in 1 year without switching companies
I worked on a team where everyone but one employee was making 100k+. He was the only one who worked his way up the ranks, and he was only making 49k. I pointed out to him that his job title didn't match everyone else on the team, as titles matched pay bands. He got more than a 100% raise when he showed our manager.
Was making 80k at my last job, asked for 110k when interviewing and my new job offered my 125k, then after a year they bumped it to 145k. I work in devops.
I didn't finish my degree so ended up going ops -> devops route.
Salary include estimated benefit values (ending salary) 12/hr -> 50k (60k) -> 70k (80k) -> 115k (125k) -> 115k (counter offered 185k upon resignation which I rejected) -> 190k -> 210k
There's a lot more to the story but that might give an idea of possible bumps. Each jump I took mostly to progress my career where they were looking for skills that built on top of what I had already been doing. I went from like a windows admin, to network admin, to windows/network automation, to ansible automation for anything (and other devops-y things), to a cloud consulting company which focused on automation, to a internal platform architect on a team, to a small business where I'm pretty much the infrastructure wizard, with a junior team member, who does the infra deployments, changes, design, cicd for dev and own team, etc.
When I took a pay decrease from 125k -> 115k it was because the weekly cash was still slightly better but the benefits were far worse. I mostly took it because I needed to get to a cloud focused company to progress my career where I wanted it to go and my company at the time couldn't get me any meaningful experience in cloud stuff at all. The pay jump after that really proved that the experience was worth it. I kind of wish I never joined the 190k company and instead took the counter offer. The 190k company I ended up really not liking leadership's direction and handling of things.
Super happy now at 210k company where I am a bit of a manager. I really like the people, responsibilities, etc. Pay is pretty great, more than I need for sure, so paying extra on the house and good bucks in retirement for later. Of the higher paying places I've been at it is the only one I feel fulfilled and not constantly frustrated.
That's great, can you elaborate what you mean by ops>devops? Do you support infrastructure or applications? I know devops is kind of a catch-all term now for automation, did you work on understanding cloud deployments from the POV of the servers/application or from infra?
I only ask because some of what I do is considered "devops" in the sense that I'm working on network automation, but a lot of times when I hear people discuss devops they're talking about supporting applications
I don't wait to be asked how much I am expecting to be paid. I generally ask the HR person what the salary range is for the role. You have 8 years experience so you can demand the top end of that pay scale.
Congrats on the new gig! Six figures has a nice ring to it!
Here are some tips about salary negotiations:
65k->72k->80k->92k->106k->113k->118k->277k
See if you can pinpoint the year I got into a big tech job.
As a person who makes about 50k, that could be any one of them for all I know. Seriously though, 160k is quite the raise.
I got just about 60% by switching the company. Previously biggest bump that I got internally was about 30%, when I put an ultimatum on the table. Without the ultimatum I'd probably get like 10% max. It's always either switching the job or the threat of switching the job that will make them pay.
I'm from India so these numbers might be a bit weird. My yearly comp has basically gone like this from 2017 to 2023
$0.7k -> $3.6k -> $4.8k -> $20k
$0.7k annually? Is it anyhow possible to live with that low salary in India? I can't even live a month with that here, even if I don't buy anything but the cheapest food and live in the smallest apartments here...
It is possible to live on that, there are people who live on less than it. Personally all of it went to supplementing my Mom's income so we could survive.
There are plenty of entry level jobs in India that offer those kinds of wages. There are more that offer less.
Yes, it's exploitative.
When I started at the company I currently work for, my then manager saw how hard I was working and negotiated an 11% raise on my behalf during my first annual review, and another 10% following. She was cool as hell and protected me from the upper management bullshit that was going on at the time. She left because they had her working 65+ hours every week for a CEO who was/is pissing away the company's capital and goodwill with clients.
My current manager is the bullshit, I haven't had a raise since my old manager left three years ago and I've been looking off and on for something else while I steadily lower my effort to be commensurate with my effective pay.
41k -> 60k -> 70k -> 85k -> 100k -> 110k (2018-2023) That 41 -> 60 felt huge. 60 -> 70 felt like a drop, it was a job change and I lost overtime and we were paid every 2 weeks instead of twice a month. (26 paychecks instead of 24)
These days, what makes all the difference are the bonus programs. My income is generally 25% higher than my base through company stock programs, bonuses and high performance grants.
The simple answer is, maybe. You could have had more if the competition wasn't better. But you will never know if they were. My advice would be to focus on the fact that you just got a big raise, and enjoy the work. In a year, ask for more, say 10%, and if you're good and fit the culture, they'll do it. If not, start looking. Just be careful of jumping jobs too much.
I jumped from 65k to 110k switching jobs and cities, but that was the biggest. The rest were like 10-20k
Over the last 5 years I have went from 50k to 90k. Same company, but recently got promoted to a new department.
My first "real" job (I used to work at McD's and Walmart, barely three months each) was 120k a year as a software engineer. I left that job for 200k within six months and here I happily stay
My last raise was 10k. But that was after 7+ years of no raises (agency work, slow times). When COVID hit, our business picked up for 2 years straight and I finally convinced them it was stable enough to commit. We're a small company and they'd rather give out bonuses or assistance with personal expenses than commit to an annual salary increase (which I get), but COL has spiked in recent times, so the raise was well past due.
200% increase once I moved to the U. S from Sweden. I'm so happy to finally leave Europe
That was unexpected (at least to me), like idk it feels like Sweden a good place to stay. Yeah the American salaries can be crazy.... but after you count everything... idk I don't think I personally would have done it.
A good place to stay? I was renting a 2bd apt in Stockholm for 22000 SEK while making only 60k before taxes, after tax it was something like 38k. Yeah, sure, my kids daycare was subsidized and I didn't have to worry about my health insurance, but what I was left with after taxes and rent was barely enough for us. Tbh I even was behind 1500 SEK copay on daycare a couple of times because of how little money I had. We had to eat mostly ätsnart items from ICA, I couldn't afford to buy a bicycle, so I had to borrow one from a neighbor and fix it up, just to save some money on commuting because of expensive fares. The bicycle got stolen eventually. After one year our landlord booted us even though I asked them in advance to renew the contract, a friend of mine told me that this is because I would be eligible for första hand rent contract after living there for 2 years, so landlords never renew 2nd hand rent contracts. We couldn't find another place to live afterwards and had to rent an Airbnb for a while. I moved to Cleveland OH afterwards. I make 2 times more now while paying only 1,600$ for a 3bd house. Our landlord is begging us to renew the contract. We can afford a car. We live normal life now.
Good pay, probably
But overall, sweden has better safety nets if you lose your job. Healthcare that doesnt bankrupt you, education for your children that doesnt cost anything, etc
For a "working solo" dude i guess it matters less. But if you move your whole family...
I'm job hunting right now and turning over a lot of similar questions, about how much I should be asking for.
A few years back I got over 80% by switching sectors - I was underpaid at a public sector job I loved, and switched to a private sector job in the finance industry and a higher COL area. Similar to you, they offered more than I asked for because corporate had specific pay brackets for that position.
I think your pay depends a lot on the specific area/tech stack you're working in and who you're working for. Some tech stacks just pay more on average than others, bigger corporations can usually pay more than smaller companies, and private sector will always pay more than public sector (but usually with worse benefits). You can check Glassdoor or similar sites to see what people with a similar title make at the company you're applying to, but that's only helpful at really big companies where there are enough employees reporting to give a good average.
I'm fresh out of grad school, and the shift from 22k to 60k has been life changing
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