this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2026
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[–] Mio@feddit.nu 5 points 5 hours ago

The US should start to work on this

[–] olafurp@lemmy.world 8 points 8 hours ago

Nice read, I took a look at the paper and it looks like a really nice metric. Having people twice as poor counting twice as much makes a lot of sense. Very nice way to handle both relative poverty and absolute poverty while not ignoring how some people are much poorer than others.

[–] Pip@feddit.org 15 points 12 hours ago

I'm kind of relieved to see this new measurement because it gives back some credibility to the social sciences/economics.

Anybody who has been in the US cannot miss the abundant poverty, which is unseen and unheard of in Western Europe.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 27 points 15 hours ago (35 children)

Here's my take on it.

Read Hunter Thompson's nonfiction book, 'Hell's Angels."

There's a chapter in it about the economics of being a hippie/biker/dropout circa 1970.

A biker could get a Union stevedore job, work six months, and have enough to go out on the road for two years. A part-time waitress could earn enough to support herself and her boyfriend.

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[–] tomatolung@sopuli.xyz 41 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

This is the author's post at Oxford: https://www.rsc.ox.ac.uk/news/global-poverty-trends-through-a-new-lens-olivier-sterck-article-for-voxdev

Has global poverty fallen since 1990? Depending on which poverty line you use, the answer ranges from “we’ve made huge progress” to “nothing has changed”. 

Using the World Bank’s extreme poverty line of US$2.15/day (in 2017 PPP), the share of people in poverty fell from 38% of the world’s population in 1990 (about 2 billion people) to 8.5% in 2024 (690 million people) (Figure 1). This is often cited as a historic success.

But raise the line – say to $21.5/day, as suggested by Pritchett and Viarengo (2025), or $30/day, as argued by Roser (2024) – and the picture changes entirely. The poverty rate is then extremely high, above 75%, and has barely budged since 1990. In absolute terms, the poverty headcount has even increased, from over 4 billion poor people in 1990 to over 6 billion poor people in 2024. Based on these numbers, the fight against global poverty appears to have failed.

This divergence is not just a statistical quirk. All mainstream poverty measures share the same fundamental feature: they ignore everyone above the chosen line. With the extreme poverty line of the World Bank ($2.15/day), someone earning $2.16/day is treated as equally non-poor as someone earning $10, $100, or $1,000/day. Billions of low-income people – who most would agree still live in poverty – are therefore excluded from the statistics. And because there is no consensus on where to set the line, it is tempting to pick the one that tells the story you want.

In Sterck (2026), I propose to measure income poverty without a poverty line. The idea is to measure poverty across the entire income distribution, rather than classifying people as poor or non-poor based on an arbitrary threshold.

The measure’s key intuition is simple: if person A earns half as much as person B, then A is twice as poor. Poverty is therefore simply measured as the reciprocal of income, and its unit is simply inverted. If incomes are measured in dollars per day ($/day), poverty is measured in days per dollar (days/$).

Average poverty is simply the average time it takes to earn $1 in a given population.

In 2024, that value was equivalent to:

  • 1 day in DR Congo, Madagascar, South Sudan, and Mozambique
  • 12 hours in Haiti
  • 2 hours in China
  • 85 minutes in the US
  • 25 minutes in Switzerland.
[–] adeoxymus@lemmy.world 9 points 16 hours ago

I never thought of using the reciprocal to measure the lower end of the distribution that is really interesting.

[–] Pip@feddit.org 6 points 17 hours ago
[–] foodandart@lemmy.zip 30 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

This isn't surprising, given the agenda of the so-called "conservative" right for the last 46 years..

[–] verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It has nothing to do with the conservative right. Clinton signed the GLBA that was at the forefront of causes for the global financial crisis that resulted in the rise of fascism all over the western world. The problem is the US of A, first past the post and a two party system instead of a representative republic. Barbarians, in other words...

[–] foodandart@lemmy.zip 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

When George Bush Senior (remember him? I do..) was running for President in 1979 against Ronald Reagan it was he who coined the term "voo-doo economics" in response to the "trickle down" policies that Reagan cottoned on to that were promulgated by Arthur Laffer.

What Bush Sr. was saying was correct, in that deregulation wouldn't see as much capital as possible getting to those at the bottom as needed. He was stopped from this critical angle by Reagan offering him the VP's seat. so he shut up and took it.

It was the neo-liberal Bill Clinton just kept up the movement that started over a decade earlier.

We forget it was George Bush Sr. who put NAFTA on the table but it was Clinton who got to sign it (and take credit for it) as the trade negotiations it entailed took years to hammer out and were done AFTER Bush got voted out.. (this was why the GOP hated "Slick Willie" so much..) Clinton got credit for many of the policies that the Republicans put forth, and was more pro-business than many of them were. (The best they got on Clinton was the Monica Lewinsky affair, which they made into a Movie of the Week drama.)

All of the deregulation that allowed for consolidation of media and stepped up the rightward swing of politics really started however on Reagan's watch.

I was there, and been watching it happen since I was in high school in 1980.

[–] verdi@tarte.nuage-libre.fr 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Like I said, two faces of the same coin. One has a veneer of accountability the other is gung ho, both are serving the same masters. I was also there, on the receiving end of the effects of the increased deregulation on the working class and delocalisation of industry. Fuck the republicans and the democrats, both are the same shit parasitic class. At least with Trump the civilised world is waking up to the dangers of trusting anything coming out of the US.

[–] foodandart@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 hours ago

At least with Trump the civilised world is waking up to the dangers of trusting anything coming out of the US.

Amen brother. This nation's gone full metal imbecile. It's going to take decades to come close to even sorting it out, if ever.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 15 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

You mean a realistic method instead of an edited version?

[–] huppakee@piefed.social 7 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

There definitely is an edited version out there, but the scientist does propose a novel way to measure poverty. I'm saying this not to argue, but to inform the people who might not open the article because of this comment.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 3 points 16 hours ago

That was not suggesting a different version of this article, but was more a reference to the fact that the US government has always been less than forthcoming about the true state of the economy and how well people are doing. A classic example would be how many people are underemployed but are still counted as being part of a healthy system. Or how working two or more jobs means you're "employed", with no suggestion of the workload needed to maintain the household. And now, the current administration is more willing just to disappear numbers than to try to make them look correct.

[–] Hirom@beehaw.org 6 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

Averages are affected a lot by outliers with very large values, and the effect is larger when there's large inequalities. If measuring by income or wealth (higher is better) in a stadium with 1 billionaire and 999 homeless people, the average people is millionnaire.

This study still uses averages and flips the effect with a povery score (higher is worse). It gives more weight to the other end of a spectrum, very poor persons that need 300min to win 1$ makes the average much higher.

Using median values, or better 20-80 centiles values would be more meaningful.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 3 points 15 hours ago

I mean giving the lower end more weight is kind of the whole point of this exercise. The effect you're describing is a good thing in this scenario.

[–] stickly@lemmy.world 0 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Going to bookmark this for the next time I hear Europeans chastise Americans for being rich and too comfortable and lazy to fight fascism.

Putting aside social safety nets, an average American needs to work nearly 2.5x as long for the same dollar as an average German. And because that number is inclusive of the whole population, I have a sneaking suspicion that the USA's larger Gini coefficient makes that ratio even higher between the poorer American vs poorer German.

[–] Pip@feddit.org 1 points 8 hours ago

Yep, you are right. It's on Europeans to mitigate the fallout, and Americans can leave depending on the midterms.

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