We Tested the Off-Grid Radio That Scares Cell Companies : meshtastic

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

No it doesn't scare mobile phone networks.
Radio amateurs who are testing this are reporting all manner of issues.
~~The source code was forked and people got their noses out of joint.~~
I see no evidence that this will scale anywhere near the penetration of mobile phone networks.
It shares the LoRA frequency bands that are miniscule compared with the spectrum use of mobile phones.

Edit: Removed item 3, there is a split, though apparently not strictly a fork, in the "meshcore" community, not "meshtastic". While I'm aware of these projects, and have read numerous posts from fellow radio amateurs, I'm not following closely, mainly because I have plenty of other amateur radio projects to pursue.

[–] brewery@feddit.uk 7 points 2 weeks ago

Point 1 - was thinking the exact same that put me off even watching it. There is no way this system could even match mobile networks from decades ago.

It's not a teaspoon to give up our anything but we have to be realistic with what we can and want to achieve with this.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Meshtastic did not get forked. You're thinking of MeshCore, which has had some issues with rogue devs resulting in a fork.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 4 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, you are correct, I updated my reply.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

When did it get forked?

Also to me this is def a hobby and would have to get MUCH better at the hop/messaging system to come close to competing with anything. I liked the video for showcasing some of the capabilities. But the title is a bit silly.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 3 points 2 weeks ago

Reply updated.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

LOL "scares cell carriers" come on now. We all enjoy a bit of clicbait but this is egregious. 😆

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

Haha yeah its a bit much. Still a decent video. Does the community care if i makeva new title for the post? I usually keep it the same to respect the maker of the video.

[–] dadarobot@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago

scared of: "new node test" "test seen" "hello from [city]" "recieved in [other city]"

[–] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

A $100 meshtastic radio, that's all.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I usually just get some cheap helteks (last I checked 2 for less than 50?) when people first start out. Then get the other stuff later.

[–] random_character_a@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Yeah. Price is mostly Muzi's 3D printed case.

I actually bought a cheaper Muzi case from Etzy. Never arrived, tried to use Etzy's policy to get my money back. Seller was able to somehow veto it. Never got my money back, never got my piece of plastic.

Etzy and Muzi suck and never using those again.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

Dang that sucks.

[–] spitfire@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Did you try issuing chargeback?

[–] random_character_a@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Don't remember, what it was called, but yes. Etzy asked to start a "process" and that was the only thing I could do. Seller added a comment, that if I order a another one, he/she will cancel the first one. Didn't see any buttons to move forward or reject. Since the product was only about 20 euros, my answer was "fuck no". Never returned.

[–] Zen_Shinobi@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Respecfully, anytime I see something like this or people claim meshtastic/core is the "way of the future" I just cringe.

Yes, mesh has it's uses, but for the cost you can pick up decent GMRS or MURS gear that will give you 10x the range (yes, I understand GMRS can only have up to 1 second dara burst every 30 seconds, manually operated).

I personally don't see the hype over mesh that other systems can't do other than form factor.

[–] Brummbaer@pawb.social 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Mesh in itself is not that useful, but it's one of the few options that you can use to legally encrypt your communication. Most things that touch (Amateur) Radio/CB will only allow cleartext.

[–] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Most things that touch (Amateur) Radio/CB will only allow cleartext.

Could you not just have an application that runs your intended text through a cipher and then send that? It's still just cleartext when sent, but gibberish for people other than who it is intended for.

[–] Brummbaer@pawb.social 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That was not clear how I stated it. Basically anything that's going on over amateur radio has to be non-encrypted any use of encryption is forbidden.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's not strictly true.

AFAIK, Satellite command and control is permitted to be encrypted.

I'm also pretty sure that the encryption clauses are USA only. I don't recall seeing anything in the Australian regulations about it.

[–] Brummbaer@pawb.social 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think it's worldwide - amateur radio transmission has to be unencrypted.

I also found this excerpt from

https://www.acma.gov.au/amateur-radio-operating-procedures

Transmissions from an amateur station must not be encrypted or scrambled, except for signals used to control a satellite, signals used to control a remote amateur station or by stations participating in emergency services operations or exercises.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

While I take your point, I'd like to observe that you're not quoting from the actual legislation which doesn't talk about encryption, instead it describes the notion of "obscuring the meaning of the signal". (13.2.d.iv)

See: https://www.legislation.gov.au/F2023L01648/asmade/text

Before you tell me that this is describing encryption, consider Morse code, which requires you to know that a "dit-dah" means the letter "A". This is like having a code to represent something else, just like the word "Alpha" means the letter "A" and "QTH" means your operating location.

In other words, if there's a common understanding of the meaning, it's not obscured, but it can still be encrypted.

I realise that this is a fine line, but the word encryption doesn't require that nobody knows.

[–] Brummbaer@pawb.social 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure that is meant by obscuring the meaning of the signal.

Morse code is a way of sending unobscured information, everyone who listens in and knows how to interpret it can see what is transmitted - so the transmission is not obscured. SSTV is gibberish if you listen to it, but everyone can decode it into a picture if they use the public known way on how to do it. It's even worse when you think about what obscuring the meaning entails. You are not allowed to run a number station, because everything you send doesn't mean anything, since your number codes are obscuring the meaning of the message.

Also law is interpreted by the government and if the agency in charge says they see that as an interdiction of cryptography the only way to challenge that would be in court since they would just fine you or take away your license for encrypting anyway.

[–] vk6flab@lemmy.radio 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think we're agreeing that the notion of encryption is subject to interpretation and you are absolutely right in pointing out that the regulator gets to decide what it means unless challenged in court.

I like the SSTV example because it's not obvious how to decode it, requiring tools to do so. The same is true for ft8 and Olivia for example.

I don't exactly know where the line is and based on my experience with this, I think that it was written like that on purpose.

[–] Brummbaer@pawb.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm totally with you on that, but I think the encryption ban also was/is also actively supported by the bigger ham radio organisations. There is some open communications culture, which is fine, but it shouldn't hinder people to encrypt their traffic if they want to.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What the mesh does that GMRS can't do though is if the person is not by their radio, the minute you want them, then once their phone comes back within Bluetooth range of their radio, it will just download the message and notify them that they got a new message that they need to read.

With GMRS, if I'm taking a shower, and the radio is in my bedroom, and somebody calls me, then I just miss out. But with the mesh, somebody can just send me a message. And when I get back to my room, I'll see it.

[–] Zen_Shinobi@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I get that, but GMRS allows data messages to be sent. Since Vero has been pushing for this, I can see other companies intigrating a APRS lite for GMRS.

I think mesh (when it works) is great for text messages. I thought it was really cool someone got BBS working. The other issue too is message collision (which APRS also suffers from)

[–] auzy1@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Tired of seeing rubbish like this. Nobody is scared

Even worse, here in Australia, companies are trying to market these things as a safety device to hikers on Facebook.

There is even a 4g product being marketed as unlimited coverage (it is not, as most of Australia does not have cell networks)

DO NOT RELY ON PRODUCTS LIKE THESE FOR HIKING.

Get a plb and a satellite messenger (if you want real-time tracking).

[–] iocase@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

In my home country of Canada one of the two duolopolies in telecom (Rogers/Shaw) added satellite texting now thanks to spaceX version satellites. So for pretty much the entire country as long as I have a view of the sky (even with trees) I can text people.

[–] auzy1@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah. They did that too in Australia. But for hiking, phones aren't really emergency grade. If it's working yes. But they are only water resistant for starters