this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2026
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A woman drives with both hands on the wheel. Her phone sits face-down on her lap. No officer pulls her over. No lights flash. Weeks later, a $1,251 ticket arrives in the mail. The evidence: a single frame from a Camera surveillance app. The charge: phone use while driving.

Automated camera companies market their devices as automated license plate readers — tools for catching stolen cars, flagging warrants, and aiding serious investigations.

Sold as a Crime Tool. Used as a Fine Machine.

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[–] Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

obviously LLM-generated article from an odd outlet that publishes five articles every hour

the news is real because it just regurgitates 404media

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 37 points 3 hours ago

I remember the NSA massive surveillance machine during the George W. Bush administration and Obama administration that tracked phone metadata and internet traffic that left or entered the US (which was used to justify a lot of surveillance of US citizens). Even after the Snowden disclosures of 2013 we were promised that the system was only meant to track foreign terrorists.

Then we learned that DEA had full access to it, and that NSA was sending hints to law enforcement about large amounts of cash in transit so it could be intercepted for purposes of asset forfeiture, what is nothing short of robbery of civilians by law enforcement officers.

This is an example of mission creep, in this case how it affects the surveillance state. Once we allow a method or technology to be used for major crime (like terrorism), it will eventually be used even for minor crime (like drug possession or distracted driving).

It's very common for courts to forgive a violation of fourth amendment protections against unreasonable search when the violation presents evidence for a major crime, but then that case will be used as precedent when the same violation occurs and discovers a minor infraction.

This is how, during the aughts and 2010s, the Fourth Amendment was gutted by a long run of carve-outs. Now, a police officer or state agent can violate your privacy without a warrant via a whole range of exceptions:

~ If the crime they discover is significant (SCOTUS suggested controlled substance possession as an example)
~ Using specialized technology, say long-range multi-spectrum cameras, or using a drone.
~ If probable cause can be established. A favorite is a detection dog that signals on anything and has a 90%+ false positive rate.¹ (This is a particular beef of mine, since fake detection dogs are now more common than actual detection dogs, and dogs are losing their presumption of regularity as a result.)
~ If the police officer was acting in good faith, which is obtusely defined and is very hard to disprove. ~ If the suspect is non-white or otherwise suspicious due prejudice. Really, in a lot of counties, law enforcement are allowed to operate on hunches, or have a suspicious activity parameter list that is so encompassing (and often contradictory) that it's impossible to be credulous.

If you want to know how we got here these were already problems during the Obama administration when we had allegedly reasonable people in elected offices. And while they discussed the risk of too much power falling into the wrong hands, they felt compelled to keep it.

Whether the One Ring, or the Ring of Gyges, power without consequence is too seductive.

¹ A similar issue is the $2 roadside drug test which reacts to a lot of substances that aren't controlled, such as glazed sugar off a donut. These were originally supposed to be then verified later in a lab, but instead were used to establish probable cause, and eventually were used as evidence in court.

[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 108 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Let's be sure to name and shame, for anyone who missed it: Georgia and Florida.

Company is - you guessed it - Flock.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 23 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Flock is shit, but apparently not the one who did this. Ig they could be lying?

Flock Safety reached out to us to clarify that our information was wrong. Flock cameras were not involved with the woman driving with her phone story. Alexandra Parade, where the incident took place, is a well traveled coastal highway with systems operated by state revenue programs. We have corrected that and removed any mention of Flock being involved with that story.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 1 points 15 minutes ago

I think people are rightfully referring to mass surveillance system cameras as Flock cameras.

Even if the company folds, the cameras will still be operated. It doesnt matter what the brand is that makes em.

It matters people know what they are.

[–] MangoCats@feddit.it 3 points 2 hours ago

When I first heard of the amputee story (a bodycam video/audio of the initial encounter) it sounded to me like this was good old-fashioned police work, followed up with a typical harassment citation to send the citizen they didn't like's attitude to court if they wanted a chance to prove that they weren't holding a phone in their amputated hand.

[–] dandu3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

In some jurisdictions, yes

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 6 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Meanwhile in NYC they're only allowed to put traffic cameras in school zones, they're speed-based only, the fine is like $100, and drivers can rack up dozens of tickets without any consequence to the standing of their drivers license.

I dunno man, I feel like there's a happy medium in traffic enforcement automation between these two extremes? It's almost as if stuff like the Georgia example exists to provide ammunition to the opponents in NYC who successfully defanged traffic cameras up there. With a thin veneer over the top that this is about surveillance.

Flock cameras, AI surveillance, etc is bad. But the specific examples and criticisms being brought up, like this one, feel very disingenuous in the face of how many Americans die to distracted drivers every year. Like are we actually pushing back against AI state surveillance, or are we defending the "right" of motorists to be wildly dangerous to those around them?

[–] spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 58 minutes ago)

Should breathalyzers be mandated in every vehicle because of the number of deaths due to drunk drivers? Should there be mass pedestrian surveillance with facial recognition to prevent crime because there are lots of criminals that use sidewalks?

The problem with any kind of mass surveillance is the information gathered will always be misused because that's what those in positions of power always do. Police officers are already using camera information to monitor the whereabouts of their exes and girlfriends. Now the data's being used as a revenue source, not for public safety. Another example - Schools remotely enabled cameras on their student's PCs and actually monitored what students were doing in their own bedrooms. Administrators saw absolutely nothing wrong with it and tried to punish those students if they didn't like what they saw.

In my opinion there isn't any possibility for a happy medium, it's eventually going to be all or nothing.

[–] Soulphite@reddthat.com 78 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

Unconstitutional. Get that stupid ass shit dismissed in court.

[–] just2look@lemmy.zip 56 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Get it dismissed, and then sue the department that sent the fine.

[–] FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 5 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 4 hours ago

Plenty of lawyers that work on contingencies if they think you have a worthy case.

[–] WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.today 15 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Might have more luck suing the company running the camera software which flagged it.

[–] just2look@lemmy.zip 17 points 5 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 9 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

YOU get a lawsuit! And YOU get a lawsuit!

EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS STUPIDITY GETS A LAWSUIT!!!

Too bad they'll all be thrown out of court after the company pays off the judge.....Ya know, it used to be when I'd say things like that, which I knew were always true, that people would say I'm crazy. That businesses can't just BUY their way out of a lawsuit.

And now, the corruption is just out there. Everyone can see it now. Which kind of validates me, but also it means that things have gotten so much worse though out there. Now they feel no fear in basically telling the public "We run this shit, not you."

Now for the next thing people will think I'm crazy for. Once they have it well established that they have bought and own the government, they'll begin taking things away. I'm not talking about healthcare, or important things. That's already started. They're in the process right now of gutting programs like SNAP, and Medicaid. They began that about a year ago.

What I'm talking about is, right now you have no reason to believe that you can't go down to your local ice cream parlor and get an ice cream cone. Nothing wrong with that. No reason to believe you'll be denied. Give it time. There will come a day where you go to get ice cream, and they'll tell you no. You're not part of the in group. You're not allowed to have ice cream.

And I'm not saying this about just ice cream. That's just one example of something that is an affordable luxury, that has zero importance in life but it makes you feel good. It brings you joy.

Those are the types of things you'll start being denied as they take more and more for themselves. They'll want movie theaters to no longer allow the common man. They'll want public pools closed, and renovated into private pools with private entry. They'll want everything for them, and for you to beg to get common luxuries.

For them, it's not about having vs not having. It's about power. The ability to lick an ice cream cone, as they watch you go without, and laugh. They want the status of being able to tell you what to do. They want the world for themselves. That's where this whole epstein's island comes from. Some of them might actually be attracted to young kids, but really the thrill for them is to be able to take your sons and daughters dignity. They want what society says they can't have, and is wrong for anyone to have. They want that. They want the taboo. They want the power to say they can have it anytime they want. Regardless of how wrong it is. To them it's a show of power, and that's all they've ever cared about.

Call me crazy, but in 20 years, when there's an entire generation who's never tasted ice cream in their lives, maybe you'll remember this post. Probably not, but I will. Just like if I knew where my 1st grade teacher, Mrs Huey was, I'd go tell her the conversation we had 30+ years ago. The one in which she claimed that I'd grow up, and stop playing video games. I told her that on my death bed, I'd be playing video games no matter how old I got. I'm 42 now, and I'd ask her "At what point am I going to grow out of video games? When does the growing up happen? I'm older today, than you were the day you said that." And she, in turn, I assume would tell me it's not important, and that it was 30 years ago. Which is frustrating because 30 years ago she wouldn't believe me, and now, she won't care. Anything to avoid saying you were wrong I suppose. Which is weird to me. I have no issue when I'm wrong. Happens quite a bit. When I was 8, I thought I'd grow up to be one of the ninja turtles. Which, just conceptually makes no sense. The turtles became the turtles because they were already regular turtles, and then mutated when they got covered in toxic waste. If anything, I'd just be a really big mutated human. Think about it. The turtles were little regular pet store turtles. Maybe 7 inches tall if held upright. Then they get splashed with ooze, and they're like 7 feet tall. So as a kid, I was probably 4 feet tall......so I'd be like 30 feet tall I guess? I mean, that would still be cool, but also, we're ignoring the medical problems of being mutated. I'd probably get cancer again.

What was I talking about again?

I read this entire comment and I don't regret it.

[–] taxon@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I have no idea, but username checks out

[–] Philote@lemmy.ml 17 points 5 hours ago

Yes, but the process is also a punishment.

[–] hogmomma@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

What's unconstitutional about it? Genuinely asking.

[–] PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.social 17 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

The Constitution guarantees the right to confront your accuser in court, which you can't do with an automated camera. It used to be a guaranteed win if you showed up at all because the camera itself couldn't hire a lawyer and present an argument.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 13 points 4 hours ago

It doesn't have to. They send a representative from the camera company whose job it is to show up in court and rationalize their bullshit at the judge. I know this because I actually had to go through this process once, many years ago, to fight a clearly fraudulent ticket from one of these damn fool things in our local downtown.

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[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 4 hours ago

When traffic cameras are found to be unconstitutional it’s generally under the fourth amendment (unreasonable searches and seizures, requires probable cause for a search warrant). I don’t know if that’s how this case would shake out, but a ticket issued by a robot for having a phone in your lap face down is dumb as hell even if it’s not unconstitutional.

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[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 16 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

I don't know what town it is exactly (Kirkland or Kenmore, WA), and they had a speed limit posted as 30mph., but gave my friend a ticket for going over 28 in a 25 zone. They grayed out the speed limit in the photo they sent that was approved by a cop. My friend would've had to go and get a picture of the sign to prove what assholes they were. I remember the sign and know for a fact that it said 30. Not enough to fight it, but enough to stay the fuck away from that town.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago

Not enough to fight it

if that's not worth fighting then nothing is. I've met High school kids that have fought tickets before. U.S. Traffic Courts are notoroious for being extraordinarily mundane

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 4 hours ago (5 children)

Some towns literally just exist to extract money from nonlocals who don’t know to not go through there. There’s one near where I grew up that transitions from a 60 mph to a 30 mph zone at the bottom of a hill, so if you aren’t riding your brakes the whole way down you’re speeding. And of course the cops love to sit there and pop people with tickets for it.

[–] SayJess@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 4 hours ago

Same sort of speed traps used to be along the only route to a casino I went to a few times. My first time driving to the casino, they were laying in wait. I got caught on the way back.

Pigs sure do love to jam people up. Bonus points if they ruin the life of a minority! There certainly are no such thing as quotas, right?

[–] jqubed@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

Emporia, Virginia is another notorious one, right on heavily traveled I-95 as well as US-58. Virginia has front license plates, so the cars that don’t have front plates definitely aren’t from Virginia and if there’s a group of cars all going the same speed it’s the easy way to pick out the non-local. Saw it happen when I was a passenger.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

That happened to my dad too, he was going "one over the limit." It's infuriating because it's fraud and stealing.

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I think that lazy shitty cops do a lot to malign common sense safety engineering that most people would otherwise be totally on board for.

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[–] unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz 5 points 3 hours ago

Old guy told me in addition to photos you should request all documentation regarding that specific sign and that stretch of road, such as the work order to have it installed. Public records laws vary lol

[–] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

Like I said on a similar thread - we already lost our feedom. They're just installing the shackles now.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

Per the article this was not a Flock cam. FYI.

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