this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2026
294 points (99.0% liked)

Technology

86847 readers
3365 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

A particularly surprising discovery is that CXMT is constructing its cleanrooms—where the actual silicon is produced—in just around 12 months, whereas the rest of the DRAM manufacturing industry typically takes 21-24 months, nearly a full year longer.

Finally, the report notes that the Chinese government is encouraging CXMT to transfer its DRAM technology IP to other Chinese DRAM manufacturers such as JHICC, Swaysure, and YTMC's subsidiary XMC. This initiative aims to alleviate memory shortages domestically before CAMT-designed DRAM enters other markets, such as the EU and possibly even the U.S.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] textik@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

"assuming all current projects are completed on schedule"

From the article. This is the single largest fallacy one can engage in in engineering.

[–] Abyssian@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

"CXMT is projected to produce about 350,000 DRAM wafers per month by the end of 2026, assuming all current projects are completed on schedule."

This is a small blurb on a random tech site, it's just giving a simple 'if all goes well' projection.

I'm sure they're not setting the entire undertaking up so that if one thing ends up slightly delayed everyone's heads will explode. It seems likely that they also have projections that take varying delays with varying parts and numbers of parts of the project into account, but that someone writing a small blurb on a tech site isn't really privy to the entirety of their forecasting.

I don't think they need you to rush in and save them from their folly.

[–] kalpol@lemmy.ca 10 points 8 hours ago

Having actually done this, the clean room part is super easy. Getting all the equipment in and running is extremely hard. Finding out all the things you messed up along the way and getting actual yields is extremely hard and also time consuming. So I'd like to know where along that process they are doing the timeline comparison.

[–] mereo@piefed.ca 65 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (12 children)

Watch how quickly the US government will try to ban them in the name of security. They'll claim that they transmit RAM data to the Chinese government 😛.

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 13 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I hope they do. More for the rest of the world. If Americans want RAM they should start looting data centers.

[–] Grumpus_Maximus@thelemmy.club 1 points 7 hours ago

When entire world is banned, and we all subsidizing local oligarchs, we can demand anything we want

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 121 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (2 children)

This shit is so over. This gang ain't gonna collude on price with Micron. They're in for eating Micron. First its market share, then its IP by buying it for pennies on the dollar.

Especially pay attention to the CCP's directive to share IP among RAM manufacturers. They appear to be looking at this problem as a supply shortage of an essential component for the rest of the economy, which it is. But that also means they aren't playing for profit.

[–] cyd@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

aren't playing for profit

CXMT is probably the most profitable tech company in China right now.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago

I meant the CCP isn't, not CXMT.

[–] DeLancre@piefed.social 114 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (3 children)

After watching recent ram cartel investigation from gamernexus: fuck them. They got what they fucking deserve.

[–] nothanks@lemmy.4d2.org 50 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

i seem to recall micron getting in trouble a while back for this same thing hmm… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_industry_price_fixing

[–] urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe 26 points 14 hours ago

And it happened again in 2018 and they were acquitted, and now there's this and I doubt anything will come from it

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/samsung-sk-hynix-and-micron-sued-over-alleged-dram-price-fixing-amid-record-memory-costs

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 4 points 10 hours ago

Can't deny it but China is always worse, so theres that to consider.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 16 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (6 children)

A smart decision which the Americans are probably not gonna make would be to nationalize Micron once they become unviable for-profit business, in order to keep the competency and ability to make RAM, which is an essential economic input these days. Instead I think they'll just let the CXMT gang buy them at that point, just like they've let that happen to so many important firms. That's unless democratic socialism has taken enough control of the US political power.

[–] dgriffith@aussie.zone 18 points 12 hours ago

nationalize Micron

No, no, no, you don't understand, that doesn't happen in the US.

What will happen is that they'll get a trillion dollar bailout, a yuuuuge amount of protectionary tarrifs on overseas competitors and then some other company will scoop them up with no obligations.

And then - and this is very important - maximum profit will be extracted from consumers, who end up being measurably worse off.

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 9 points 13 hours ago

ability to make RAM, which is an essential economic input these days

It's kind of cool to think about...that we're living in the silicon age. The next step after bronze and iron and steel. We're still making useful things out of rocks...but different rocks, and now we boil water to use them. Like a stone soup, which itself is based upon a pre-revolution French folk-tale about the joys of communism....but now the government is "encouraging" manufacturers to throw in their vegetables. I don't think government strong-arming the peoole was a part of the original tale but I could be wrong.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] 1984@lemmy.today 27 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Standing by for "Chinese memory is spying on you, don't buy it".

If this memory is high quality, it will become very popular with consumers and still have high prices. No reason to lower it a lot for consumer market if they are alone there. Maybe make it 10% cheaper.

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Or as they did with cobalt alloys: use slave labor to flood the market and push out all competition, then rug pull and cut off all supplies.

They're in the middle of this process with electric vehicles as well.

Another thing they like to do is make manufacturing deals with foreign companies in order to steal the technology for the state, which there is a lot of opportunity to do in the Silicon industry.

[–] halcyoncmdr@piefed.social 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

use slave labor to flood the market and push out all competition, then rug pull and cut off all supplies.

So, the Walmart model.

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 points 7 hours ago

I can tell you're making an analogy of how Walmart pushes out smaller stores in towns,

but after Sam Walton died Walmart has sold primarily Chinese products,

so, yes, exactly, in more ways than one.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 36 points 14 hours ago (10 children)

Micron doesn't seem interested in competing for consumer memory anyway, since they exited the consumer memory market. Latent demand exists for memory at not-outrageous prices so good for CXMT for filling that niche.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 17 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Do you think they'll stop expanding after filling the consumer memory market though?

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 8 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

I don't think so, domestic electronics manufacturers have an enormous need for memory that is performant but doesn't necessarily need the top-of-the-line, and probably China's government is pushing to reduce the need for imported memory components from Korea or Taiwan as well, so demand for production is there coming from both the private and public sector.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 hours ago

That's what I'm thinking too. They're gonna go as far and as wide as they can go.

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 2 points 10 hours ago

They would outpace demand regardless in order to undercut competitors at a loss, just like they did with Cobalt alloys and electric vehicles.

Only a matter of time before the rugpull if we let them in.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 8 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

CXMT will also sell at outrageous prices. It's free money.

[–] cyd@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Yeah, they are currently engaged in a major spat with Huawei, which is accusing them of price gouging HBM supplies. Sounds familiar...

[–] dgriffith@aussie.zone 12 points 12 hours ago

CXMT will sell the chips to memory manufacturers in China for "domestic use only" at near cost price as directed by the CCP.

Those manufacturers will construct consumer ram modules and sell them locally, and there will be grey market exports to other countries for ridiculously low prices compared to everyone else.

This way the CCP props up domestic supply, and chips away at foreign manufacturer market share by turning a blind eye to the massive grey market export of RAM.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] shweddy@lemmy.world 19 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (5 children)

Watch international* ram be banned like international* EVs

*Chinese

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 17 points 14 hours ago

Ram prices would still fall since other countries would not ban it and would put less stress on the current supply that already exists.

[–] urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe 8 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Considering Micron is the only US manufacturer, and they no longer produce consumer ram, this would just mean you literally could not buy any electronics that relied on ram. I doubt that would happen. Chinese ram, maybe

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 12 points 15 hours ago

Competition is good. Hopefully an end to memory manufacturer price collusion is near. I’m not holding my breath for it though.

[–] ToiletFlushShowerScream@piefed.world 5 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

It hasn't felt t like there's been much significant performance increases or development in RAM in the last.. decade? Definitely not following moores law (if that even applies here). So if youve spent your time price fixing for the western market instead of developing technology to keep you ahead, then second rate competitors will eventually catch up and cut a huge portion of your market share, and enjoy those inflated prices instead of you. This of course is my very uninformed take, and probably completely inaccurate.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

To be honest DRAM was dirt cheap for quite a while and the profit margins of those companies were razor thin. Only recently they saw a surge in demand and they are exploiting it to enrich themselves but also increasing the manufacturing capacity is a lengthy and costly process which I presume some of those companies are actively trying to delay, in order to preserve their fat profit margins now.

Competition is good though and hopefully will lower the price overall faster.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

It hasn't felt t like there's been much significant performance increases or development in RAM in the last.. decade?

In memory? There's been a ton of improvement, even if most of the coolest stuff isn't making it into DIMMs that are installed in user laptops/desktops.

Advanced packaging technology has allowed chip manufacturers to put different silicon dies together with increasingly high performance (high bandwidth, low latency) connections in the same package, including with some three dimensional stacking. That way they can mix and match different silicon dies for greater cost effectiveness, yield, performance, etc.

This also means that in-package memory is now the standard in certain chips. Apple's M-series silicon has its memory packaged right into the CPU/GPU package, as a system-in-a-package, so that the connection between the logic and memory is comparatively much higher performance, several times higher bandwidth than desktops or laptops that don't follow that kind of architecture.

Similarly, in data centers, the AI boom has caused all the memory manufacturers to switch their production lines to high bandwidth memory, where they vertically stack a bunch of DRAM chips on each other, with ultra-fast, high bandwidth connections, so that they can shove terabytes of memory into these data center servers. These recent generations have been improving speed and bandwidth in ways that make consumer level DDR5 RAM look like child's play.

So they're improving things. Just not in ways that really show up in DIMM sticks.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›