They also need clearance, they're supposed to have like 15' free above them and a couple feet on each side
theneverfox
joined 2 years ago
Capitalism isn't the same thing as free trade, we're talking about literal individual markets. It could be a free market, the lord could be involved with workshops and give them exclusive rights, it could be a guild system, or he might just let the people do whatever
As for the means of production in the service industry... It's the building, the fryers, the computers, the agreements with suppliers or customers... some of these things are more abstract, but if you swap out the people, anything that's still there
Keep in mind, supply chains were pretty simple back then. You didn't make shovels, you have a local blacksmith who takes in iron and makes what you ask for. But everything is done at the prerogative of the lord, if he decides you need to make something you do it, if he decides you're overcharging he can set your prices, maybe you get ordered to take on apprentices
Think of the town as another resource - the lord gets more taxes the better the local economy is, but can also meddle in it however they like
Does the smith own the smithy? Kind of, but you could also say the smithy kinda owns the smith and the town owns the smithy and lord owns the town
You first. We're not on board with any of this
Sorry, I don't think I understand what you're trying to say
If you want free markets without capitalism - this literally existed
What are the means of production? Machines that weave thread into cloth. Machines that weave cotton fibers into thread. The land that grows the cotton. The people that harvest the cotton. The land itself
The was something that money could not buy, until it could. That's the line
Pretty much. I love technology, but honestly I'd be happier and healthier in a forest
Well, NYC has way too many policemen. Maybe they can turn that on the feds
You mean walks like a goose
To address your first point, you go into the bazaar, and you buy a shirt vs another shirt. The lord owns the cotton fields, they both come from the same place but have different prices and different quality/traits - that's a free market. The raw materials belong to the lord, but what you do with it is up to the artisan
You're trying to cut the difference between raw materials and value added - that's the murky difference between mercantilism and capitalism
Remember, there was an age where shipping iron to a town was how farmers got tools - mercantilism is about raw materials in and out, once things get complicated it doesn't make sense
Right? It just doesn't even require explanation. People know what you're talking about immediately
It's a concept we all know missing a word, and people just get it instantly. I've had to repeat it slowly, but everyone gets it
I don't think you understand.
Socialism isn't on the table. We're so incredibly far from that. Let me know when the revolution is coming and I'll be there for it... Until then we very real issues that we can make a bit better. Not good - we're totally fucked - but we can make things less horrible
There's a genocide in progress. We're going to go through a depression. We can tea party the Democrats to be more progressive... There's no time to build up something new
I can't impress on you enough how many people are going to die
You spelled "take" wrong
It matters because the party isn't the people, it's infrastructure. It's buildings, it's support staff, it's mailing lists and payment processors
It's getting a special (often unfair) place on the ballot in all 50 states. It's 50 (often flawed) primary processes that follow local laws
And it's a banner. Not one people like, but it's one banner. A banner that theoretically stands for democracy and the common man
The left is not organized. Do we rally behind a fresh, ideologically pure banner? Which one? How long to work out which group is the best? How long until we can build up that infrastructure?
Fuck that. Winning is what matters.
The people are on our side for now, there's so much anger and energy. How long until they adjust to the new normal and go back to refusing to believe in a better world?
We have a chance right now. The next 18 months. In one sweep we can take a tattered banner and get in control - before people get cold feet. While they're still just screaming for someone to stop Trump.
We can use the momentum to unfuck our democracy once we take control, but we can't get distracted. There's no room for purity or lofty ideals. We have to take what is offered and exploit every opportunity. We have to use the system against itself.
We have to win. Now. Or we all die
I think you're kind of comparing apples to oranges, we're pretty fucked over here right now
I'd call him a progressive. He has socialist ideals, but he's operating as a populist - he can't get out there and say "we're going to do free healthcare" because we're not there right now
It seems to me that he'll be as left-wing as the moment allows, but what he's actually pushing for is pretty tame IMO