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‘A catastrophe’: Greenpeace blocks planting of ‘lifesaving’ Golden Rice
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 26 May 2024
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The author didn't address it in the least, which is troubling, but how exactly did they prove to the court that the rice hadn't been shown to be safe? They seem to have made a convincing argument and I'd rather like to know what it was. Seems like an important part of the story to me.
According to the Greenpeace website:
My take from this: It may be that they targeted more than the safety, but also the possibility of gene flow (to other rice crops including wild rice), possible effects on biodiversity, and the ever-present patent issues that come up with GMO's.
Scanning down the page though, they don't specifically say why it poses risks to human health other than some hand-wavey stuff about how it would make people rely on rice instead of providing other sources of vitamin A in their diets.
They also brought up that at least one experiment with the rice on children in China wasn't done ethically, and also that this could be imposed against people's religious beliefs.
It mentions the cross-contamination gene flow stuff, but I thought because rice was self pollinating that that wasnt as big an issue with GM rice. (I'm not an expert by any means.)
Their general argument seems to be "new way bad, old way good" without any scientic evidence. They didn't have to convince scientists though.
I'd like to point out that Greenpeace or the local population doesn't have to prove that GM rice is bad. It's the other way around:
Big corps have to prove that GM rice is good and has no adversarial long-term effects, which is impossible to prove.
Which big corps would that be exactly?
It's perfectly possible to show that it's safe to any reasonable standard: https://www.irri.org/golden-rice-faqs
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jafc.9b01524
How exactly do you propose that the genetic makeup of the rice is going to impact the person eating it, if chemical analysis shows it's not meaningfully different from any other rice?
You can't demand that people prove something beyond unreasonable doubt. At some point you have to be able to articulate a concern to justify further scrutiny.
That would be Syngenta, the big agricultural corp involved in the project.
The key part to me is the under $10,000 USD per year from farming requirement. What happens when a larger farm gets accidental cross pollination?
What happens to farms with organic certification if their neighbours start growing golden rice and it cross pollinates?
There is a history of Western nations using “humanitarian” outreach to sabotage developing nations.
Assuming that Syngenta are entirely altruistic is a huge risk for developing nations.
Source: http://www.goldenrice.org/Content2-How/how9_IP.php
This is a good point, we shouldnt use this well tested and seemingly safe life saving scientific advance to save the lives and health of children because someone might have ulterior motives. Outright ban instead of a legal framework to protect against the abuse.
What big corps? Golden rice is developed by scientists working for universities and distributing it via NGOs for free.
And they've produced dozens of studies over the past 24 years showcasing its effectiveness and safety.
Syngenta.
http://www.goldenrice.org/Content2-How/how9_IP.php
Honestly, that's where my comment started... But everything I found showed that studies had proven that it was safe. So I changed tack and started focusing on the Greenpeace side.
Do you say this for every new organism that is patented or is it reserved solely for gmos?
If gene flow from golden rice managed to successfully hybridize the four gene complex providing the iron, zinc, and beta-carotene nutrients into other rice crops, that would be incredible. It's so unlikely to happen and the scientists involved have to work so incredibly hard to get it to happen, because it would be a tremendous good for the world if it did.
We could only hope that such gene flow would occur naturally from the golden rice.
I'm not generally a fan of GMO, mostly because we're just not very good at it. Food with pesticide throughout when natural variants would just have it in the skin? Maybe not. That said, this looks like the perfect candidate for GMO. I dont mind having beta carotene being throughout the whole food, and i dont care if it gets expressed in the rest of the plant (not that i know if it does). If I could buy this in the store, I would. Sometimes I don't feel like carrots. Also, saying they could get their Vitamin A elsewhere while completely ignoring widespread deficiencies in various regions is the stupidest argument I've heard in a while.
That's an argument to regulate GMO crops, not to stop doing it.
Theres another possibility. That gene flow leads to making all other rice varieties inedible similar to what happens to "self-harvested/cross-pollinated" pumpkin/cucumber/zucchini seeds. Genes dont 100% copy over due to the process of recombination, which can cause quite unexpected outcomes. The GMO scientists never tested these quasi-infinite possibilities yet.
When non-sponsored scientists do work like this, corporations have usually spread fear to stop a competitor from gaining a toehold. Unless the scientists have very deep pockets, they can be banned from the marketplace, for lack of money to "prove" their product is safe. This looks like more of the same. With the Citizens United ruling, we do not know who is pushing which agenda.
What if it changes the flavor of all the world’s rice so sushi, risotto and every other rice-based dishes are different?
Assuming it's still safely edible, people would find a way to make it taste good enough. There's a million condiments in the world, something will work.
Unlikely. Each strain of culinary rice, particularly in Japan is incredibly specific. Sushi rice is often packaged with single strains and new cross bred strains are tracked and only a handful are legitimized for more widespread commercial cultivation. Crops are managed by experts who know exactly what to look for. Deviations in the crop selection for next crop's seed is carefully scrutinized for potential hybridization.
I find it easier to think in terms of apples. Like you know how you go to the supermarket and there are 8 types of apple? There's like hundreds of distinct cultivars of apple some that are hold overs from middle ages. Humans are very good at keeping their fav flavours from getting fucked up. Shout out to the Cox's Orange Pippin or really any Victorian era dessert apple. If you haven't tried one figure out how to get your hands on one. It's worth it
This is what I was replying to.
And I am saying that in our current cultivation structure gene flow is something we are already used to accounting for. They are talking about the actual bio engineering process that makes that unlikely. I am talking about normal everyday gene flow.
The process of farming has accounted for regular gene flow for a very long time. What you choose to reseed is a pretty easy variable to control. Cross pollenated strains might occur in new fruit or seed but what in totality you harvest and what you choose to replant is fundamentally different. Unlike your average amateur cottage gardener farming done by experts is often incredibly specific as to what gets kept. An expert can tell a lot of things based on the shape of the entire plant not just it's fruiting body before even relying on gene testing. If it's something you work with everyday minute differences become very noticeable.
Also, there may be other people reading this that are actually worried about losing a strain of rice something they value. A lot of alarm happens because people simply don't understand what systems already exist and their concern is essentially already a non-issue for other reasons.
Ah, I thought you were just jumping into a conversation that you didn’t understand.
I sort of understand it though just on a passing level. I have a friend whose background is in bio engineering (though he discovered he hated the jobs associated with his degree and actually became management) but also am also friendly with people who are big into gormand style heritage strain conservation and attended a few lectures held by our local University because I was interested in all the hubbub around "Frankenfoods" back in the early 2000's. My understanding of the biological aspects are shakier and generally just passing interest level because the rabbit hole is deeper and more technical... But I love studying the history of farming and crop cultivation which also has an understanding of prevention or propagation of weird hybrids through gene flow.
Some of the comments I read above is examples of very practical fears. People want to know that they are safe and that the things they like aren't endangered. Since media tends to just yell "LOOK AT THIS WEIRD SPOOKY THING! IT'S SPOOKY!" all the time because that sells best it's sometimes good to just rip the mask off a problem and go "It was old man Norman Normal the whole time!"
Furthermore, you stole my argument.
Furthermore, cross-contamination of traits like RoundUp resistance could spread under selection pressure. What's the selective pressure for beta-carotene production in wild rice?
What does that furthermore have to do with anything? The selective pressure of a trait that uses up more plant energy to focus on its nutrient production and that is only beneficial to humanity and not wild species?
I believe that's what they're saying, yes. Concern of the trait spreading to other strains of rice are exaggerated because there's nothing that would make this trait an advantage outside of the domestic food context, whereas Roundup resistance provides value to plants that want to grow near Roundup.
It's actually interesting looking at what traits seem scary, but are actually massively negative in the wild. Like, there were a bunch of people freaking out about that modified salmon that grows three times faster (and requires 3 times the amount of food to compensate).
If that ever escaped into the wild, it would die. Period. The only way it stays alive is by being fed directly and by not having to use its energy to swim a lot. There is no advantage in the wild for growing 3 times faster. Heck, because of that, it likely wouldn't even match up with the spawning season properly.
I completely agree.
This is especially rational to question when looking at the GMO's previous healthclaims like the safety of Roundup - Monsanto has had no qualms about lying to the public in the past.
Monsanto has nothing to do with this topic. You're just fearmongering.
My trust has been eroded by this industry as a whole - I'm not saying their shit is dangerous but I won't accept their claims on blind faith.
It's perfectly reasonable to demand a study in the name of public health.
They have been working on and testing this golden rice since 2000, with tons of studies done on its biochemistry, including from people eating it. In fact, several countries have already been using the rice for years What else are the scientists supposed to do to appear Greenpeace's purposefully vague demands?
cross-pollination experiments with other rice varieties.
And this specific sort of cross-pollination would be bad why?
To show what exactly? It's actually really hard to get desired new traits to retain themselves in cross-breeding experiments and even in regular generational breeding. That's the whole issue with F1 hybrid plants having great hybrid traits, but you can't replant them or they completely lose those traits.
But Roundup doesn't have anything to do with GMOs? They made genes that let some plants tolerate a pesticide. The effects of that pesticide have nothing to do with the gene.
Exactly. And those who suffer in the end is always the people, never the big corps. Never trust big corps to do the right thing in agriculture. They'll fuck you over and leave the environment destroyed. Build local species.
"Big corps" aren't involved here. It's a philanthropy project, and from what I can find it's not legally encumbered in any way like Monsanto stuff is. This is entirely Greenpeace doing something that gets headlines, instead of something actually good. Don't forget that that organization, too, has motives, first among which is going to be survival and advancement of the organization.
Big corps aren’t involved?
Heard of Syngenta?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syngenta
As for their involvement in golden rice see: http://www.goldenrice.org/Content2-How/how9_IP.php
They don't own it, they don't get paid for it.
The sentence preceding the one you have quoted. This is also only in respect to proprietary tech that was used in the creation of golden rice and not the proprietary golden rice itself.
Regardless Syngenta has exclusive commercial rights to Golden Rice.
So yes, I did read it, the whole article and several others. I understand the full picture and it isn’t as clear cut as some are making out.