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this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2024
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If I was to give this point of the benefit of the doubt (which, to be clear, I don't) what you're saying is that tankies are accelerationists. And I get it, to an extent -- a comfortable middle class isn't going to be concerned about the depredations of the right until they start to find themselves in the crosshairs -- but the last time fascists got their way in the world, more than 73 million people died. Arguing, in effect, that the aftermath of another world war will be better for the survivors is a... challenging point to defend when it requires you to dismiss the deaths of a significant percentage of the world's population, especially when those most in danger from a rising right wing are those that a supposed left-winger should most want to protect. Sacrificing religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities on the altar of a better future for religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities doesn't sit well with me.
Defending a revolution is not accelerationism. I have no idea how you got that from what they said, or generally where this idea of tankies being accelerationists comes from, it seems to be mostly something people make up about us. Accelerationism is stupid and reactionary.
So is Donald Trump.
Yes, he is. Not sure what that has to do with the incorrect claim that tankies are accelerationists.
Most tankies on lemmy spend a lot of time arguing for people to do things that lead to Trump bringing much of fascism to America. Not sure if you'd noticed.
I haven't noticed any tankies supporting Trump, no.
Oh, weird. In my feed, they're always trying to convince left leaning folk not to vote for Biden so that Trump wins.
Yes, we do believe in participating in bourgeois elections in the form of our own party, the reasons for which were laid out by Lenin ages ago. It has nothing to do with the modern concept of "accelerationism," or wanting Trump to win. If I were an accelerationist, I'd be spoiled for choice, conditions will continue to decline under either candidate. Unfortunately, accelerationism doesn't work, and declining conditions are the reason we got Trump in the first place.
In a race between Trump and a person who created the conditions that make people like Trump inevitable, I support neither, instead, I support a position of fixing the conditions that led to Trump's emergence, which is the only possible strategy of stopping facism in the long run.
The conditions that led to Trump's rise to power were a deep-seated underlying racism that persists in several American subcultures, coupled with a failure to address wage suppression by allowing the minimum wage to fall behind the cost of living for decades and decades.
You're still both-sides-ing a clear-cut choice between lawless capitalism and the status quo with fringe improvements. Here I thought you were a left wing person who prefers the poor to suffer less. I was wrong, you're a classic tankie, I'm afraid, who draws no distinction. You could use your vote to prevent the clear and present danger of a much worse situation in America, but you've become convinced that letting Trump win is the nobler, purer action. Save me from "leftist" hard-right enablers!
Of course I'm a tankie, I never claimed not to be. I even used the word "us" when referring to tankies in my original comment. Tankies prefer the poor to suffer less, in fact, tankies are responsible for three quarters of worldwide poverty reduction since the 1980's.
Again, you assign stances to me that have nothing to do with what I said. It's not about "nobility" or "purity," it's about establishing a political platform capable of addressing the root causes of the problems faced today. The status quo cannot last indefinitely. 4 years from now, things will have gotten worse and you'll still be saying that we have to vote blue no matter who to preserve the status quo, as the status quo stops working for more and more people. It's a doomed strategy.
So vote for progressive candidates in primaries, but given the chance to postpone the advent of a self-declared right wing dictatorship for 4 years, with as complete state capture as he can manage, and now with the SCOTUS nothing's-illegal ruling, that's a lot, and you're sitting on your hands? That's the crazy to me. That's the deluded hypocrisy of the typical tankie.
So why would you sit by impotently and allow trump to make the poor suffer more?
I literally just explained the reasoning for my position. The strategy of preserving the status quo is a doomed, defeatist strategy. Even if it means starting from square 1, it's better to push for a solution that actually has the potential to work.
By the way, I didn't call you tankie to call you names, it was the label you used for yourself. If you recall, early on I was surprised that you were a tankie who actually seemed to want to stop Trump. Now that I see you're advocating not voting for the only person who can stop him, I see that you're a typical lemmy tankie. The insult was in the word typical.
I initially thought you wanted to stop the far right. You clearly don't even care enough to put a mark in a box.
Of course, I don't take any offense to the term tankie, or being called a "typical" lemmy tankie.
What I said initially had nothing to do with the US election. Then, I correctly responded to you that I haven't seen any tankies supporting Trump. I'm sorry you got confused about my positions, I guess.