this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2025
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Image is of Elon Musk giving the Nazi salute a week or so ago.


I didn't really want to keep spotlighting American domestic events as I had assumed that shit would calm down pretty quickly, but it appears that the Trump administration, including Musk, are determined to bring down the empire from the inside.

One of the most important lessons of ruling a country - and especially an empire - is to never, ever believe your own propaganda; and yet now we have neo-Nazi failsons disrupting parts of the imperial apparatus and causing general government mayhem because they actually seem to believe in libertarianism; that the state and the capitalists are somehow in opposition, rather than working in lockstep to maximise profit and boost American hegemony around the world.

I'm not so optimistic as to believe that a national collapse is FOUR DAYS AWAY, like those weird anti-China cranks often speculate - the US has at least a decade or two left even under these conditions. But consider the damage being inflicted in these past couple weeks, and extrapolate that over the next four years. Does any living American political figure possess the competency to halt - or even meaningfully slow - the already ongoing decline? And could they achieve power (or even be allowed to do so) after Trump's term is done?


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https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
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https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
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[–] wtypstanaccount04@hexbear.net 25 points 4 hours ago (6 children)

While googling Hezbollah, I came across this picture of Hezbollah soldiers doing what appears to be an Nazi salute- what gives? Is this western propaganda? My assumption is that this is taken out of context or something.

[–] MidnightPocket@hexbear.net 7 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

According to a random guy on Quora several years ago commenting on Syrian troops performing this style of salute:

Why are these Syrians giving a Heil Hitler salute to Bashar al-Assad?

"it has nothing to do with Hitler, they are putting their hands on top of imaginary Quran or Bible and bledge (sic) to protect the country against all Enemies; I watched the video and heard them say in Arabic to bledge (sic) to protect Syria from all enemies."

I am not Muslim nor am I from a non-western culture; I cannot confirm nor deny this rationale.

If it is true, I'm guessing that the specific angle is used so that they aren't prodding their comrades in the back when saluting in phalanx formation.

Other commenters suggest that the fascist-style salute is less sensationalized/provocative in global south nations which were further removed from the Nazi atrocities in both geographic proximity and media influence regarding the topic.

At the end of the day, context does matter. This is a very simple salute style that is probably commonly used due to its utility in a mass formation context. Performing this salute outside of a military context, at a publicity event in a nation where there has just been a drastic change in leadership style, after decades of sensational coverage of Nazi mannerisms in media...is categorically different than performing it due to utility in a different historic context.

That said - it is still jarring to see. Feels like "culture shock". In light of recent events with Elon, having to play the "context" card really does feel like an impotent explanation. It really is starting to feel like this salute style is just ubiquitous, though.

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 2 points 14 minutes ago* (last edited 9 minutes ago)

Context is real. Sometimes people will lie about it mattering like with Elon, but sometimes it certainly does. Israeli propaganda has tried to used these exact images to paint Palestinians and all Arabs as Nazis before https://x.com/ofirgendelman/status/549667522182541312

[–] Babs@hexbear.net 13 points 2 hours ago

Fascists use the salute, and if you see a white guy doing it he's pretty much certainly a Nazi, but there are other contexts for the salute. It's just that when Nazis say "oh no, this is just a roman salute, they are fucking lying.

[–] Redcuban1959@hexbear.net 26 points 2 hours ago

It's a common military salute in the Middle East and South America, usually done to pledge loyalty or to salute the national flag.

The roman salute employed by groups associated with Ba'athism, Pan-Arabism and Phalangism supporters, including Hezbollah, the pro-Assad NDF and Assad supporters, the Syrian Social Nationalist Party, and the Kataeb Party. However, the oath of allegiance by the Lebanese army and the salute to the flag both use the Roman salute – possibly due to Vichy France's influence shortly before independence was officially gained in 1943 – even to this day.

[–] Seasonal_Peace@hexbear.net 20 points 2 hours ago

A Syrian told me that his parents used to perform the salute in school to honor the state or something similar.

[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 11 points 2 hours ago (1 children)
[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 16 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 8 minutes ago) (1 children)
[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 8 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

im calling it shitty cause it is, im not gonna run around like an elon simp saying 'oh its a roman salute' or some shit.

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 18 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Is it reflective of nazi elements within hezbollah like it was with elon?

[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 10 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

no, but until theres a non fascist adjacent reasoning imma call it shitty. Doesn't impact my support of them, but I'm not just gonna play around with this, not right now.

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 2 points 10 minutes ago

Either they’re Arab Nazis or not. Simple as that. You might feel like it’s “shitty” but even that belies a lack of confidence in the conclusion because one would never call an actual fascist salute merely “shitty” and it would certainly impact their support

[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 22 points 3 hours ago (4 children)

I don't think it's a Nazi thing because the PFLP also does it, and I've seen Syrians do it, as well.

[–] Lemister@hexbear.net 6 points 1 hour ago

It has an older usage stretching back to ancient greece. But its now associated with the nazis primarily along with dozens of other things.

[–] Metabola@hexbear.net 14 points 2 hours ago (1 children)
[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 18 points 2 hours ago

yeah but taiwan is fascistic

[–] Biddles@hexbear.net 19 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I've seen the Ukrainians do it too

[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 16 points 1 hour ago

lmao but those are nazis

wait thats the joke thats the joke isnt it

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 11 points 3 hours ago (1 children)
[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 20 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I mean it's the "Roman salute" which predates Nazi usage. I'm just telling you I don't think it has anything to do with the Nazis given that PFLP, and I'm pretty sure the Lebanese Army, also use that salute at various times. I think it goes back to the French colonial rule, but I'm not a military historian.

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 17 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Great, so at best, a fascist Italian associated salute or colonial Vichy France one.

I feel like the story goes that some Phalangist Lebanese activists took note of their salutes, and imitated them in such style, then the others were inspired, despite its sketchy origins.

[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 21 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

French colonization of Lebanon predates Vichy France.

The "Roman salute" fell back into favor (really was more like invented) during/after the French Revolution though artwork meant to evoke civillian loyalty to the state/nation. I believe it was used by the armies of Napoleonic France in some fashion, but don't quote me on that one. The French Revolution, as a cultural touchstone for republican and nationalist political ideology, inspired not just the fascists salutes but also the Bellamy salute that was developed decades prior to the fascist one. They all had the same intent that the artwork did: invoking loyalty to the state. It's was during/immediately after WW2 that the meaning shifted to be about fascism, at least in the minds of Europeans/Angloids.

I don't know how the PFLP or Hezbollah came to be doing it, because it doesn't seem to be well documented (at least in English). The Lebanese wanted the US to administer their state before the British and French did Sykes Picot. Maybe it comes from the Bellamy salute, I don't really know. But I'm willing to give Hezbollah and PFLP a bit more of the benefit of the doubt than Elon Musk given that I haven't seen either party show up at an AfD rally or talk about white birth rates.

[–] Parzivus@hexbear.net 14 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Doubt the PFLP cares about what westerners think of their salutes

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 10 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Yeah, but more or less, my point is it WAS more or less a Phalange thing/a Lebanese Christian Ultra-nationalist thing.

I don't recall saying anything relating the PFLP to these salutes

[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 10 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

The use of this salute among Arab/Middle Eastern armies predates the Phalangists.

[–] Biddles@hexbear.net 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)
[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 3 points 23 minutes ago* (last edited 21 minutes ago) (1 children)

If y'all want to say that Hezbollah and the PFLP are fascist, then just come out and say it. I'm not about to spend my evening digging around in old military photos for you to prove that a salute that is already well-established to predate fascist usage by a couple centuries predates fascists usage. I have limited patience to deal with IDF propaganda talking points in this community.

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 3 points 13 minutes ago

Fucking absurd discourse to have in the news mega of all places