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this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2025
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doomer
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Please don't equate indigenous healing and science, and the people who practice it ("shamans", which is not even a very well defined term) with the quackery RFK sponsors and promotes. You're relying on anti-indigenous tropes to "own" the chuds, please refrain from doing so.
Still really condescending to the person raising an important point about colonial attitudes. Indigenous medicine is more than just culturally important. If you define science as hypothesis, experiment, observation, and adjustment, then indigenous medicine is science. Holding the position that it has to be blessed by a scientific journal before it's considered science is colonialism.
This is true for all of the pomp and arrogance of Western science. A journal recently reported on the discovery of new fish and mammals in Alto Mayo. Were these unknown to science? Only if define science as Eurocentric institutions. The reality is that these animals were known to the people living in that region and likely have been known for thousands of years.
The arrogance of Western science is why we don't have midwives anymore, why women suffer and die from preventable illness while under hospital care at rates higher than men, why non-white people suffer and die from preventable illness while under hospital care at rates higher than white people. And it's not like Western science doesn't know that these outcomes are true, they just don't care enough and they don't have the cultural mechanisms required to address these objectively real problems.
Stop comparing white reactionary quackery with indigenous science as means of denigrating white reactionary quackery. The reason white science doesn't acknowledge indigenous science has nothing to do with virtue and everything to do with violent domination.
I mean, this is just emotional reaction born of being called out for your obvious arrogance and condescension, so yes, you have engaged too much.
Science is a process. It is a socio-historic process of knowledge creation. It can be conducted by a single human being in isolation as much as it can be conducted by entire societies in dialog with other societies.
The process of gathering empirical evidence is precisely what indigenous people were doing for several thousand years before white people showed up and decided they were subhuman. Indigenous science produced many medicines and medical techniques that we use today. Because it's science.
The problem is not with the indigenous scientific process, the problem is with the socio-historic process of European colonization. Indigenous social processes, like science, are at a socio-historic disadvantage under colonial occupation, just like women's health and non-white health are at a socio-historic disadvantage - not because the scientific method has flaws but because the scientific method provides very little defense against the socio-historic process of science being corrupted by larger prevailing socio-historic processes.
That you think indigenous medicine is casting spells instead of what it actually is, like for extracting salicylic acid to use as a fever reducer, is evidence that you are subject to the same socio-historic process of colonization despite having gone through many years of education and forming a self-concept that denies even corruptability, let alone actually corruption of your thought process.
If you're gonna fight the white reactionaries, try not to carry water for them.
The example of the fish "discovery" was simply to show that knowledge based on empirical evidence is possible despite white European institutions not yet having that empirical evidence. The knowledge of that specific blob-headed fish was known, empirically, by humans, but it wasn't until specific institutions spent the time to gather evidence that it was considered "discovered". You think the people living with those fish did not know of the existence of those fish via empirical observation?
Do you realize how many false medical beliefs we hold in the Western world that we had centuries of empirical evidence against but because of other socio-historic processes we had to live with? The classification of the mesentery as a organ only happened recently despite half a dozen studies showing it was an organ over many many decades, primarily because the doctor who wrote that it wasn't an organ was a British knight. Did you know that the discovery that the lymph system has a brain connection was literally diagrammed out by Italian doctors but the Brits couldn't find it after a few tries and then they just insulted the Italian doctors as being too eager only to find out decades later they were wrong?
Science is not just "show me bro" and anyone who studies the history of science should know that.
My actual face seeing this thread
It was me, I'm not reading this, and you're going to continue to cop infinite bans forever because you're being an asshole. literally go outside
Science is a process. It is a socio-historic process of knowledge creation. It can be conducted by a single human being in isolation as much as it can be conducted by entire societies in dialog with other societies.
Fundamentally untrue. Science, in the modern sence, literally depends on multiple unbiased via double-blind studies, if based on a trial, or undeniable empirical evidence that can be repeated by other independent sources to try to disprove it. It's why "hypothesis that cannot be disproven" are fundamentally worthless, because anything that can't be disproven by other independent sources is fundamentally unscientific in any modern understanding of the concept. The idea that "a single person, can like, totally do it bro." again, proves you lack a literal 5th grade education. Being able to have multiple indepdent sources repeat a study or expirment is literally the, LITERALLY, MOST FUNDAMENTEL ASPECT OF "SCIENCE." LITERALLY. BY. DEFINITION. YOU LITERALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WORDS YOU USE MEAN. You need to be able to repeat the same tests in order to disprove a hypothesis IS LITERALLY THE FUCKING BEDROCK OF SCIENCE. LIKE, YOU LEARN THIS IN 5TH GRADE IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. 5TH. FUCKING. GRADE. I SPENT YEARS OF MY COLLEGE LIFE ON THI, WASTED MAYBE, BUT TO KNOW, UNDENIABLY THAT YOU'RE INFERIOR... CHRIST -- WORTH IT!.
Here's a thing -- How do you know you're not "in the matrix" well, you don't. Kinda hard to disprove, in fact, it's a hypothesis that cannot really be disproven. until you're already out of the "matrix" (which obviously... lets say doesn't exist) It's fundamentally unscientific (hence, the domain of philosophy) How do you know the "scientific evidence" you gathered isn't wrong? Well, you have other indepedent sources repeat your experiment using your metholdology, if they get a different result, somethings wrong, if everyone who tries to "disprove" your "disprovable" (not-philosophy-matrix bullshit like I have a degree in) hypothesis, then it eventually becomes upgraded to a theory. No theories, in a modern sense, ever becomes theories based on ONE PERSON, because that's not how SCIENCE, in any usage of the word since the literal founding in the concent since the "englightenment" has ever been used.
You're just dumb as shit stringing together words that don't actually convey any meaning, but you write words, so you feel you're "competing" you're a moron writing 1/0=1. on paper. You're not proving you're diving by zero, you're proving that everyone with the slightest mathematical education that you're utterly ignorant, and lack a child's education.
Any hypothesis needs to be able to be tested by multiple independent sources using the same methodology for any hypothesis to get anything near "theory" level, be gathered from other sources to confirm hypothesis and evidence. If you're going to tell me "science" can be done by a singular person, please tell me how a singular person can do a double-blind study of the efficacy of penicillin on a patient with syphillis. I EAGERLY AWAIT.
Of course, you can't, because it's impossible, because you literally are a dumbfuck who literally doesn't know what science is, and is making shit up with your "pity-passed-out of a public high school so we could get funding for next year-ass.) I'm not even going to begin to get into the complexities of the fundamental limits of empirical knowledge and the limits of the scientific method itself in an empirical world. There's a reason I literally spent years on this, because you need to literally spend years to suss out the nuances and complexes of the limits of empiricism on the hyper-dorky philosophical level. But that's not even the problem, you simply don't understand the 5th grade scientific method, you are so far beneath me it's unbelievable.
Not engaging any further. Enjoying my shitty McDonalds iced coffee. Your lack of education is as apparent as Elon's lack of gaming skills, the difference is, somehow, he's still more pathetic than you (lucky you.) You will be condescended to you for the rest of your life by anyone with a real education in any real subject, rather than repeating imbeclic phrases you read off reddit or your favorite youtuber said, just as anyone with even the most mediocre gamer skills can see how incompetent Elon after mere seconds, based on his misplaying and misunderstand of most fundamental aspects of a videogame. (In this case, PoE2)
If you want a photo of my degree, I will send it, I'm leaning into appeal to authority. Otherwise, I've proven you're dumb as shit and everything you said is an embarrassment, as you are. Good day, you are correct, I have engaged with my inferiors too much. I will refrain from such.
I am embarrassed that you're a hexbear. You don't have a rigorous bone in your body and you don't have an ounce of self awareness. You are the quintessence of Dunning-Kruger.
what the fuck?
Please go find some outside to inhale and some distant scenery to gaze at. While you're out there, please reflect on why you thought it was a good idea to denigrate someone for asking you to avoid disparaging indigenous people when you shit on quacks.
I look forward to your post on c/selfcrit
Are you, uh, doin ok there?
I think I touched a nerve.
I don't know what to tell you, boss. Your words don't match your actions. You aren't making arguments, not in the least; you lack the curiosity and humility required to be a scientist, let alone a philosopher; and I have no interest in showing you my credentials because, despite your insistence that you're correct, credentials do not an argument make. Nor does what school you graduated from, nor does which particular degree program you went through nor does whatever your professors said to you. You will not get the satisfaction of the dick measuring because the fact that you're demanding it is all the argument we need to see your position for what it is.
snort 4 whole years!
Credentialed philosopher of science here: you are correct about all this.