this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2025
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And I'm one of them. There's absolutely no way I would or even could ever date some loathsome piece of shit who opposes trans rights, supports Trump, defends the Capitol attack, opposes DEI, wants abortion banned or wants gender roles legislated.
If anything, I'm disappointed that there aren't more of us.
Right?
I can't imagine the kind of person that cares so little.
I can. I think they are my family. I just don't hear their voices ever. Nevermind Trump support for a second, most of them do not support him. But, all I ever get is silence. I open my mouth, finally there's pushback. Not necessarily that they are bigots, but they are more interested in order than justice, is my take. I can't figure it out otherwise. Not without help.
-Martin Luther King Jr
I'm just neurologically incapable of putting myself in their heads. I get that such moderates exist and always constitute a majority in the population, but I can't understand them.
Order without justice is tyranny. If there is no justice, then the order is illegitimate by definition. Yet so many keep acting as if our government is legitimate despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary.
And I can't even blame most of the opposition to reform because the propaganda and surveillance in this country is so thick it makes 1984 seem old-fashioned in comparison.
Yeah I mean how could you date, much less marry someone whose values are so out of whack with yours??
Glad I never had that problem. It's like, just date cool people??
Because they lie.
A lot of straight conservative men know that many women do not want to date conservative men. They will not present themselves as conservative men, and instead will list themselves perhaps as “moderates” or “centrists” or otherwise “hide their power level.” This is true for conservative gay men as well, to a lesser extent.
People can be very good at hiding who they really are until the night after you get married. It’s terrifying.
Ok I may be stupid but how this still work now that we have legalized no fault divorce
Keep in mind, the fascists are trying to get rid of that, too.
No fault divorce doesn’t mean “instant and easy.” It just means you don’t have to give a reason. My divorce took about a year - although I guess that’s because after he kicked me out he refused to file and took my money lol.
What I don’t understand is why you would marry someone you hate. He had ‘No Children’ played at our wedding, despite me asking him not to.
Very good point =/ god I'm glad I never dated men
Some people are good at hiding their crazy. Luckily, MAGA types are generally pretty loud about their bigotry and never shut the hell up, so it's easier to weed them out.
I find it hard to even work with those types of ppl, let alone date one.
I have two brothers who are variations on the theme.
I'm the oldest and middle brother is a longtime conspiracy theorist who's on the anti-vaxx, deep state fringe (and at least pleasantly is notably not a bigot) and youngest is an IT guy and a stock,,-standard tech "libertarian" who rages about wokeism and free speech and idolizes Musk and is about every kind of bigot imaginable.
So I spend holidays mostly hiding in the study, surfing the web and trying to ignore the bits of mansplained propaganda wafting down the hall...
That's rough, sorry you have that problem. I have a similar thing with my mom and her trump loving b/f. The holidays usually last about 1 hour before I leave.
yUgh. That sounds even worse. You have my sympathy.
It's a weird thing about this era. In the past, I would've tried to argue with them about their views, but at this point, it's effectively impossible, since we don't even share a reality. They live in a world in which, for instance, Kamala Harris is a DEI hire who got appointed as the candidate by Biden, who' in turn is still working for the Obamas, and she lost because she's a socialist.
Where do you even start with something like that?
Thanks, I have stopped even trying to make sense of their world. I just get up, say my good-bye to the rest of the family, and leave. It's kinda all you can do, they will try to pull you down to their level and then beat you with experience. Your situation is bonkers for sure.
Seriously, being a bigot is a deal breaker.
Out of all those, I would be most open minded to someone who opposes DEI, since DEI is one particular strategy for combatting inequality and they might support another instead. I can't steelman any of those other qualities though.
Opposing DEI is like opposing Gay Pride. There are many nefarious corporate influences weaponizing gay pride to the detriment of many lgbtq+ people and it makes sense for many of the parades to be boycotted on this basis. Many DEI programs can whitewash and excuse a lot of rascism induced issues people could face while providing a legal defense for the company to continue their racist practices. At the same time, I'm for gay pride and diversity, equity, and inclusion and would assume anyone who couldn't explain their opposition to these concepts to be a bigot.
sure, but, we're assuming here that the person can explain their perspective.
The assumption would be that unless they can explain it in a way that indicates their support of the rights of either affected group, they're bigoted and not worth anything to anyone other than to the thought leaders they let think on their behalf and are using them to profit themselves. I'll pity them as they are extremely pathetic and loathsome, but that's as much as I'm willing to give them. There's less than a percent chance that they're simply misled and willing to have a good faith conversation about what they were taught, but short of that they're easy to dismiss altogether in every way. This may sound harsh but I'm well past any patience I had for bigotry.
I would be open minded if only their opposition stemmed from misunderstanding what it was.
If I were to explain it, or point them in the direction of someone/something that explains it, and they're still opposed? Yeah, that's a deal-breaker.
I actually paused over that one myself, but while it is technically possible that someone could oppose DEI with the best of intentions, with the sincere belief that it's an ineffective or even counter-productive strategy, I just think it's orders of magnitude more likely that they oppose it because they're racist filth.
But yeah - that's one that I'd likely want to follow up on before a final decision.
I think you may be a bit polarized by social media on this issue. My dad (who doesn't social media) watches MLK's "I have a dream" speech every year. It's no surprise that he's not a fan of DEI, though it's not like he complains about it.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about DEI. I like seeing more diversity on TV and such, but I think that it's a better idea to focus on fixing inequality when people are young (e.g. in elementary school) than difficult-to-standardize hiring policies. Still, it's better than no strategy, so I can't say I'm "opposed" to it.
Probably.
Years ago, I was actually opposed to it myself (it was generally considered under the umbrella of Affirmative Action then) mostly because I saw it as a species of tokenism - a way to create the illusion of inclusion and diversity without the spirit of the thing.
But then I was confronted with a very compelling argument that basically held that it should be supported regardless of potential flaws because its long-term merits would oitweigh those flaws - it would condition people to see minorities in the workplace, and even in positions of power, as a common and unremarkable thing, and it would allow for new generations who would grow up already in that world because of their parents 'employment. Effectively, it wasn't for the current generations, for whom it would necessarily be at least somewhat problematic, but for future generations.
That's been my position ever since.
Somewhere along the way though - about the same time that "woke" became a pejorative, I started seeing a new rush of opposition to what was now known as DEI.
And the thing is that I never once saw a considered argument against it. All I saw was the new generation of overt racists - the people who fed exclusively on /pol/ and stormfront and AM talk radio and white supremacist podcasts - sneeringly referring to every minority in any notable position as a "DEI hire."
But yes - maybe those who oppose it sincerely and with good intentions are out there and I just don't see them.
I think woke becoming a pejorative (and the associated cultural shift) enabled people who were opposed to DEI (on the grounds that it's affirmative action) to be more vocal in their opposition to it. Of course, overtly racist people oppose DEI most vocally. I'm not sure. Anyway, among actual humans I talk to who dislike DEI, they generally are not especially racist.
Anyway, that is a compelling argument, but on the other hand, it also normalizes the belief that diversity requires affirmative action, and it does not -- equity is a fix for a symptom, but not the cure; it can be pre-empted by better equality earlier in the chain.