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[-] sxan@midwest.social 9 points 1 year ago

I don't think you're necessarily wrong, and I'm certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.

I've been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy's popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I've seen little to indicate that he's anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader -- I like the guy, and I'm inclined to trust his judgement. He's done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don't.

[-] SoyViking@hexbear.net 58 points 1 year ago

Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the "ethical ideals of the EU" are.

[-] sxan@midwest.social -1 points 1 year ago

Do you think they're different than the ones codified in Article 2?

[-] DankXiaobong@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Article 2 - Right to life

  1. Everyone has the right to life

Except those Russian orcs

  1. No one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.

Sending conscripts to into the front lines instead of seeking a diplomatic solution is quite literally a death penalty

[-] macabrett@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago

Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.

Doesn't seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.

[-] Commiejones@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

They didn't just ban them they also seized all their assets.

[-] Sasuke@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago

if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won't) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the 'aid' they've received—from the 'highly ethical' EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.

and we already know what the cost of these foreign ''aid'' packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.

[-] NoGodsNoMasters@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts.

But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?

[-] Bnova@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

GDP is just a measurement of money exchanging hands, so I don't doubt that Zelensky, a man in the Pandora papers for money laundering could figure out a way to get their GDP to a trillion.

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades

Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao

[-] spectre@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

By that measure, Xi is also implicated

[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 41 points 1 year ago

No?

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/10/4/chinese-politician-in-pandora-papers-looked-to-trade-us-stocks

China’s only politician to be named in a sprawling investigation of millions of confidential financial documents known as the Pandora Papers is a female entrepreneur who the report says set up an offshore firm to trade U.S. stocks.

[-] spectre@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

It's overly amplified by liberal propagandists, but there's at least enough of a connection to make a note of

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35962326

[-] GaveUp@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Relatives" is a very purposely vague term to use

I have so many relatives that I've never met or only met less than 3 times

If the connections were close relatives even to first degree cousins, they would've said so

For a parallel the libs can understand: all other allegations aside, it's extremely clear that Hunter Biden wouldn't have been on the board of a Ukrainian gas company in the first place if his last name wasn't Biden.

[-] spectre@hexbear.net 37 points 1 year ago

You don't see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?

I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he's kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.

NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don't believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.

got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.

Russia already invaded ukraine and took control of crimea 5 years before Zelensky became president.

To view this invasion as totally separate and then blame Zelensky for getting invaded is kinda insane to me.

[-] Commiejones@hexbear.net 36 points 1 year ago

I've seen little to indicate that he's anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader

Zelenski is a trained actor.

Did you see any signs Jack Gleeson wasn't a petty psychotic little shit in Game of thrones? He's actually a pretty cool guy in real life.

[-] sxan@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago

Are you comparing a fictional character in a fictional story to a person performing IRL? You're judging his performance in this crisis by hia previous career? Which careers pass your "ok to be voted into presidency" test?

[-] Commiejones@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago

No. I am comparing an actor playing a part to an actor playing a part.

Which careers pass your "ok to be voted into presidency" test?

Career doesn't matter. Its who holds their purse strings that matters. Same man who paid Zelensky the actor, paid for Zelensky the president's campaign. (and also funded neo-nazi paramilitary groups) Same boss. Just a bigger billing. Same job different character.

[-] FakeNewsForDogs@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.

[-] Sinister@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.

[-] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago

The people moaning about people from Romania and Bulgaria are neither the ones profiting from their cheap labour here nor are they who calls the shots on the matter

[-] sxan@midwest.social -1 points 1 year ago

I don't know. The EU has been having a bit of a crisis, with candidates from several member states floating the idea of their own Brexits, financial struggles, and bad faith actors. I would hope that if Ukraine met the conditions for membership, then yes. It had been doing pretty well, financially and rule-of-law -wise; maybe not perfect, but steadily improving.

I was surprised by Trump, by Brexit, by the political successes of far-right politicians (Rachele Mussolonis) across Europe. I have no idea which way any of these countries will break.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship

Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he's even interested in that, he certainly wasn't terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there's going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there's going to be a Zelenskyy who's first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!

this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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