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this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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Ask Lemmy
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The first step to changing someone's mind is acknowledging that you probably won't be able to. The other commenters are right, the red pill is stupid, it's annoying to argue with them, and you'll probably fail the delicate act of ideological conversion. Still want to give it a shot? Great!
Depending on how deep down the rabbit hole they are, the answer is it could either be impossible or it's a long term dedicated effort. First you should learn a bit about cult deprogramming techniques, as while the red pill isn't really a cult it is an echo chamber ie. a mostly comprehensive view of the world that has built in answers that insulate from external dissent. The red pill tends to provide community, some degree of lifestyle improvement, and a feeling of secret insights into society / the world, and it's very rare an individual will give those things up for the sake of something as abstract as logical consistency.
You need to slowly provide alternatives to whatever positives the red pill provides, which while annoying is possible because the red pill sucks. The online sense of community is tenuous at best, so be their friend and connect them to other friends that'll entirely replace that aspect. Additionally, the lifestyle improvement aspect is rather generic and can come from anywhere. Ask them what specific red pill people they follow and provide a gym / motivation YouTuber that better provides whatever motivation the red pill gives.
The final element is the feeling of insight into the world that the red pill gives. This one is ironically the least important to changing someone's mind and the most difficult, as in order to successfully provide alternatives you likely need to understand the red pill ideology better than they do. Nothing a red pill person says should stump you, you should have heard it beforehand and researched it and thought of better counter arguments. If they mention hypergamy, you should have annecdotal, theoretical, and statistical answers ready to go. You should know their ideology well so you can make annoying jokes about how ridiculous it is when applied to real life.
If you do these things, over enough time and done diplomatically enough so they don't leave you for a friend that doesn't annoy them, you can probably depeogram a red pill person.
I've heard it said (by a sociologist) that unwinding conspiratorial thinking requires approaching someone with compassion. Rather than tell them that they are wrong, ask them to explain why they think a particular thing.
Honestly, I don't have the patience or compassion to try to do this. I gave up trying to talk my mother out of her Fox News beliefs and instituted a "no politics" rule in our relationship in order to save it. Best move that was available for me.
Yeah it's 90% compassion and 10% argumentation. Seeing things from their perspective, seeing the aspects they like and not immediately placing those aspects into the good and bad buckets, but instead truly appreciating how those aspects work for them. Of course, then you need to figure out how to advance your position over theirs, but that exhaustingly starts in compassion.
Asking questions and not sounding like it's a gotcha moment seems to be effective in many fields. Heard it being effective regarding smoking as well.
Oh fuck. That's like at least a level 8 difficulty out of 10.
Yeah it's incredibly difficult, that's why the majority of people never change their ideology past their early 20s when they first flirt with several. Add in the fact that you'll likely be socially ostracized from your old community if you ever do change your mind and the evolutionary pressure to be accepted over being logical, and it's quite frankly impressive anyone ever does.
Thing I don't get is where people are finding this sense of community. I understand that it's rough to feel like you belong in America, but are red pill Internet communities really enough for some people to give them a sense of belonging? Every Internet "community" I've ever been a part of just feels like a bunch of strangers arguing about things and trying to pile into some ranking order.
I know this was posted eons ago but this needs to be said. The most HONEST way to deal with Red Pill rhetoric is to verbally Aikido them.
First, admit the truth - SOME women are exactly like the nightmares they conjure up. I mean, Miriam Nakamoto DID dump her boyfriend specifically BECAUSE he failed to look masculine enough while he was losing a MMA match. There are women like that in the world. Evidence you bring up isn't going to negate that, and it is fear of these women that DRIVES Red Pill. When you say that's not a thing, you're giving them false information. You're gaslighting at that point, and they're going to see that and retreat back to their extremist ideology.
So the SECOND part is, go with what you know and we all know: women ain't all like that. But there's also the missing link here: Red Pill people are that way because they failed to properly pick the women they date, so they just keep running into these bad women. The problem you must address is that they're all about dating the best looking women rather than the nicest women, and they are the CLASSIC example of men who fall for "crazy hot" women. Sound familiar? Yeah because it's the counterpart for they say women fall for Chads/jerks. So the answer to the real problems that Red Pill brings up is not their sociopathic Dark Triad tactics, it's properly vetting your partners - looking for moral character and actual compatibility rather than just the best looking women. They need to be specifically told that if a man can't be attracted to a woman who's not 18-19 years old, big breasts and hourglass figure (the female counterpart to 6 feet, 6 figures and 6 inches) then that man needs to rethink his life rather than turn to the Redpill.
This is the whole answer that they need.