this post was submitted on 01 Jun 2025
279 points (93.5% liked)

Europe

6082 readers
702 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org

founded 11 months ago
MODERATORS
 

Archived version

Opinionated piece by Stefan Wolff, Professor of International Security, University of Birmingham, UK.

... the EU’s largest and Nato’s second-largest economy, Germany is now also aiming to turn its Bundeswehr (the German army, navy and air force) into the “strongest conventional army in Europe”. Its most senior military officer and chief of defence, Carsten Breuer, has published plans for a rapid and wide-ranging expansion of defence capabilities.

Germany is finally beginning to pull its weight in European defence and security policy. This is absolutely critical to the credibility of the EU in the face of the threat from Russia. Berlin has the financial muscle and the technological and industrial potential to make Europe more of a peer to the US when it comes to defence spending and burden sharing. This will be important to salvage what remains of Nato in light of a highly probable American down-scaling – if not complete abandonment – of its past security commitments to the alliance.

...

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world -4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Disappointing, I did not want to see our Prussian militarism rise up again. As long as the Russians continue to threaten Europe and politically influence the USA, we have no choice but to rearm.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 24 points 3 days ago (3 children)

What if I were to tell you all that you can rearm and simply be pragmatic, not weird about it?

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (2 children)

With our (German) military history, I hope so and let the cool heads prevail.

[–] Gsus4@mander.xyz 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Easy: have a provision that if AfD or anybody like them ever gets into government, all the MIC and weapons stockpiles will be handed to surrounding non-Orban-stan EU countries or NATO itself.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Mate, have you not noticed the authoritarian measures in Germany to silence criticism of the Gaza Genocide, not all that dissimilar to what the US is doing?!

The rot of Racial Discrimination and the tendency to use Force to silence dissent crosses most of German politics, the AfD being but the current pinnacle of it (easily replaced so long those very fields keep getting watered and fertilized by the rest of the German political body).

People in power in Germany NOW are the very opposite of Humanists who equally care for other people merely because they're human beings, and it would be very dangerous for the rest of Europe to rely on the goodwill of those in power in Germany even if the threat of the AfD was stopped.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 3 points 3 days ago

And who is supposed to enforce that mechanism? That would require stationing a few hundred thousand soldiers from all over NATO to be stationed in German bases and eye their "allies" carefully, make sure they are the ones handling the stockpiles etc.

That is completely unrealistic.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Well, we have historians who think it necessary to introduce the old traditions again. One of them: a historian responsible for shaping government policy concerning the military:

https://archive.ph/2025.05.04-185800/https://www.zeit.de/kultur/2025-05/wehrtuechtigkeit-8-mai-parkfriedhof-lichterfelde-soldaten/komplettansicht

But we are progressive too, feminists fantasising about protecting their families with M16s in street fights with Russians are a thing as well.

So, don’t get your hopes up

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Wehrmacht were the baddies not because they had breeches, sabres, trumpets and did goosestepping.

So there's really nothing problematic with military traditions. Morale is important even for corporations.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, all dandy when you kinda ignore what all that signifies. Corporations are a great example, for they are pretty perfect fascist organisations. All really nothing problematic.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

All that signifies that a military is a hierarchical structure intended to impose your will upon some other group by force, hurting, maiming and killing people on scale.

That is unfortunately a required module.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Well, we have historians who think it necessary to introduce the old traditions again.

As far as I can tell, this historian says in the article that a soldier is more than an extension of democracy but also needs to be able to actually fight and hence not only needs 'role models' for ehtos/attitude but also for acquiring military skills.

He criticises that we (Germany) try to hide the bitter reality of the military behind a purely bureaucratic façade, while the actual soldiers risking their lives deserve a more honest and open treatment.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No. It might seem that way superficially, but that’s not the case. It’s such a common place that soldiers have to acquire military skills, it’s laughable to pretend that the German state or bureaucracy sort of forgot about that. He explicitly criticises the German military’s directive that the Wehrmacht can’t serve as a traditional role model for the Bundeswehr, and he only implicitly, at least in this publication, wants to see the military traditions of Wehrmacht and Prussia, reinstated. The reasons why the Wehrmacht should never be a fucking role model for the Bundeswehr has been discussed at length and brought to an end (it seemed) in the 90s. It’s a fucking disgrace that all this reactive bullshit is becoming fashionable again. It’s only possible because they pretend that there’s never been a broad public and scientific discussion about these matters in Germany. Where in fact these were the reason why there is a changed attitude towards military traditions. And it took till 2018 for German politics to acknowledge that. And now we’re back to square one, fuck.

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It’s such a common place that soldiers have to acquire military skills, it’s laughable to pretend that the German state or bureaucracy sort of forgot about that.

That is not the point he's making. He says that while we (as in the general public) like to make the Bundeswehr appear as a "clean" entirely "bureaucratic" object with a large focus on questions of ethos/attitude, we closed our eyes to the inevitable military nature of the Bundeswehr. This is understandable, given our history, but the soldiers who actually risk their lives don't only need role models in terms of ethos/attitude, but also in terms of skills. Maybe I overlooked it, but I can't see where he "explicitly criticises the German military’s directive that the Wehrmacht can’t serve as a traditional role model for the Bundeswehr" and especially not where he "wants to see the military traditions of Wehrmacht and Prussia, reinstated"

The reasons why the Wehrmacht should never be a fucking role model for the Bundeswehr has been discussed at length and brought to an end (it seemed) in the 90s.

That's why I'd like to see where he makes that point. We then can get angry all we want, but first I'd like to see what precisely to get angry at.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Note I found this article after I got that weird feeling about Neitzel in the Zeit article.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/19/wehr-j19.html

I don’t think this is too alarmist. It is no coincidence that Germany’s role in WWI also gets downplayed by these types, eg Münkler. Again, these reactionary debates create the illusion that historians of the 20th century somehow got it wrong or that there never was any debate about these topics. As if something like the Fischer controversy never happened. It’s scary.

In the previous article, this is what I based my suspicions on:

Musste die junge Bundesrepublik etwa noch auf die alten Wehrmachtseliten zurückgreifen, um eine Armee im Dienst der Freiheit aufzubauen, wolle man nach der Jahrtausendwende von dieser Kontinuität meist nichts mehr wissen, sagt Neitzel. Ein Ausdruck dessen sei etwa der Traditionserlass der Bundeswehr von 2018. Da heißt es: "Für die Streikkräfte eines demokratischen Rechtsstaates ist die Wehrmacht als Institution nicht traditionswürdig." Und: "Grundlagen sowie Maßstab für das Traditionsverständnis der Bundeswehr und für ihre Traditionspflege sind (…) vor allem die Werte und Normen des Grundgesetzes." Frühere Fassungen waren bei allen Distanzierungen von Nationalismus und Militarismus traditionsoffener, etwa der Erlass von 1965: "Die deutsche Wehrgeschichte umfasst in Frieden und Krieg zahllose soldatische Leistungen und menschliche Bewährungen, die überliefert zu werden verdienen." Oder der Text von 1982: "Nicht jede Einzelheit militärischen Brauchtums, das sich aus früheren Zeiten herleitet, muss demokratisch legitimiert sein.”

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I don’t think this is too alarmist.

I don't think it is very objective, either. The article cites an interview in Spiegel in 2017 which can also be found online.

Your article:

Neitzel insists that the Bundeswehr must stand in the tradition of the Wehrmacht because it must be an “instrument of battle.” He declares that “tank grenadiers and paratroopers” can “hardly be offered non-combative role models.”

Actual Spiegel article [deepl translation]:

But the Bundeswehr is also an instrument of combat. Just talk to tank grenadiers or paratroopers. They're not running around with foam balls, they're supposed to be able to fight and kill, because that's what the Federal Republic of Germany demands of them. In return, I have to accept that these people, all volunteers, have a certain ethos. They don't say: It's terrible that I'm a sniper. They want to master their profession - just like you want to be good journalists and I want to be a proper historian. I can't offer these people nothing but non-combatant role models.

Neither does he say the Bundeswehr must stand in the tradition of the Wehrmacht nor does he say that "tank grenadiers and paratroopers" can hardly be offered non-combative role models but that they cannot be only offered non-combative role models.

Your article:

One can also “act in an exemplary manner in a total war for a criminal regime… for example, in providing leadership or as a successful soldier like [Helmut] Lent.”

Lent, whom Neitzel praises, was a leader of the 3rd night fighter squadron who was styled a war hero by Nazi propaganda. In his funeral oration, Hermann Göring described him as a “supporter of our National Socialist [Nazi] world outlook.”

Acrual Spiegel article [deepl translation]

Lent scored 110 kills, he was one of the most successful German night fighters and was celebrated accordingly by the propaganda. But as far as we know, he was not a Nazi. Now you can say that this man fought for a system whose character we can all agree on. Or you can look at how he led his squadron, how he flew himself, and come to the conclusion that he was a role model as an aviator and troop leader. I would ask the soldiers in the Lent barracks.

We just shouldn't try to smooth over people's life stories. As role models, people are always edgy. And if the tradition of the Bundeswehr is not to begin in 1986 - when the first inspector general with no experience of the Second World War took office - we have to accept the brokenness in people's CVs. It is also possible to act in an exemplary manner for a criminal regime during a total war - in the sense of resistance like Tresckow, but also as a military man, for example in leadership or as a successful soldier like Lent.

While your article wants to make it seem that Neitzel is praising a Nazi war hero for this, in the actual article Neitzel explains his views on Lent which are a bit more complicated than told in your article.

Also, they conveniently left out the parts where Neitzel explains that the "exemplary manner" in which a person can act even in a total war for a criminal regime (which he does not apologise or trivialise, btw) can be not only as a successful soldier but also in resistance or in leadership.

Your article:

For Neitzel, not only Nazi propaganda heroes are to be revered for their military achievements, but Hitler’s Wehrmacht as a whole. “The initiative to want to win, to thrust forward, loyalty to duty—are all military qualities that remain valid,” he declares.

Actual Spiegel article [deepl translation]:

In terms of practical skills, there is a great deal of agreement with what the Bundeswehr also demands of its combat troops: the initiative to want to win, forward momentum, loyalty to duty - these are all military qualities that are still valid. This whole box of traditions is - I exaggerate - only a problem for the combat troops anyway. Especially in units such as the armored forces or the paratroopers, which were formed in the 1930s. When they practise combat, they always end up using the tactics of the Wehrmacht.

He absolutely doesn't say that Hitler's Wehrmacht as a whole should be revered but that at the core, in both Wehrmacht and Bundeswehr (or any other military), the core demands on soldiers are always the same: a desire to win, to proceed and to be loyal. Futhermore, units that were first developed in the 30's inevitably also use tactics of one of the biggest armies at that time and extensively developing these units, the Wehrmacht. Is that really surprising?

I encourage you to read the original article, as yours seems to be quite biased and I think its always best to aim for an objective and original source where possible.

In the previous article, this is what I based my suspicions on:

Musste die junge Bundesrepublik etwa noch auf die alten Wehrmachtseliten zurückgreifen, um eine Armee im Dienst der Freiheit aufzubauen, wolle man nach der Jahrtausendwende von dieser Kontinuität meist nichts mehr wissen, sagt Neitzel. Ein Ausdruck dessen sei etwa der Traditionserlass der Bundeswehr von 2018.

Yes, but the paragraph doesn't start there. The sentence before that is vital for the meaning, hence we shouldn't omit it:

Gleichzeitig ist die Frage, ob und wie eine Armee wie die Bundeswehr in die Demokratie passt, mit zunehmendem Abstand zu den Weltkriegen und den deutschen Diktaturen drängender geworden.

His point: while in the early years, a continutiy to the Wehrmacht was almost inevitable, this continutiy now almost faded to non-existence as time passed on and we don't want this continuity anymore. However, we haven't tackled the question yet of, as he says it, how an army such as the Bundeswehr fits into our democracy. He criticises the lack of an honest military culture in Germany that also accepts that there are soldiers that literally train to kill succesfully and prepare to give their lives for this country and the resulting dishonest desire to make the Bundeswehr exist in a sterile vacuum with no historical lineage and as little connection to the rest of the society as possible.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Thanks for engaging!

Unfortunately I don’t have much time atm, but I jotted down some ideas of what I wanted to reply. Since I guess we’re pretty much on our own in this thread by now, I relay my thoughts in German:

Das komische an der Sache, und das lässt eben auch viel Spielraum für Interpretation, ist, dass er gar nicht genau erklärt, was ihm eigentlich fehlt. Bei der Bundeswehr.

Und warum das was ihm fehlt er in diesen alten Klamotten zu finden hofft.

Er spricht mal von Ethos, mal von Taktiken.

Irgendwie sei hier die Tradition gebrochen. 

Aber was soll das denn genau sein?

Wenn er sagt, die Panzer müssten halt die Nazimanöver üben, klingt das, als hätte die Zeit von 50 - 2022 gar nicht existiert. 

Keine Panzer, keine Manöver.

Ich mein, von mir aus, kann man vielleicht sagen, zwischen 1990 und jetzt war nicht viel mit Verteidigung los, aber den kalten Krieg gab’s ja auch. War da nix? 

Ausserdem: Das war doch immerhin Verteidigung, was man ja jetzt ebenfalls wünscht, wie es heisst, und ich meine mich zu erinnern, dass die Wehrmacht mehr so auf Angriff gebürstet war. 

Warum ausgerechnet darauf wieder Bezug nehmen?

Ebenso die Frage wie die Bundeswehr zur Demokratie passt. Müssen wir uns wirklich diese Frage stellen? Sind das nicht auch erledigte Debatten aus dem 20. Jahrhundert?

[–] Quittenbrot@feddit.org 1 points 16 hours ago

Also vielleicht ganz grundsätzlich vorweg: ich kann dein Unbehagen bei dieser Thematik gut verstehen und bin selber auch nicht völlig frei davon. Wir haben uns in Deutschland über Jahrzehnte an einen gewissen Umgang mit dem Thema gewöhnt und der wird gerade ziemlich herausgefordert.

Neitzel ist in meinen Augen jemand, der nun auch noch extra den Finger ganz bewusst in diese gesellschaftliche "Wunde" legt und uns damit in gewisser Hinsicht den Spiegel vorhält und uns ganz explizit mit diesem Unbehagen konfrontiert. Das ist schon polarisierend, aber ich finde auch spannend, was das in uns hervorruft.

Das komische an der Sache, und das lässt eben auch viel Spielraum für Interpretation, ist, dass er gar nicht genau erklärt, was ihm eigentlich fehlt. Bei der Bundeswehr.

Ich glaube, ein Thema für ihn ist dieses merkwürdige Spannungsverhältnis, in dem wir die Bundeswehr halten. Nach den unvorstellbaren Gräueln, die wir als Deutsche vor nicht allzu langer Zeit verbrochen haben, haben wir nachvollziehbarerweise große Berührungsängste mit dem Thema, machen uns dabei allerdings auch nicht richtig ehrlich. Wir wollen (vollkommen zurecht, wie ich finde) eine ganz klare Trennung von der Wehrmacht und ihren Verbrechen, wir wollen eine möglichst "verbürokratisierte", "cleane", "ungefährliche" Bundeswehr, damit wir nicht noch einmal Täter werden. Das Unehrliche ist jetzt, dass wir einerseits am liebsten wohl gar keine (sichtbare) Bundeswehr mehr hätten, wir uns am liebsten gar nicht mit diesem Themenkomplex auseinandersetzen wollen, eine extrem ausgeprägte Grundskepsis gegenüber dem militärischen haben, andererseits aber natürlich trotzdem von der Bundeswehr und den Soldaten erwarten, dass sie für uns kämpfen und töten würden und im Äußersten auch bereit wären, das eigene Leben zu geben.

Ich kann wie gesagt sehr gut verstehen, warum wir als Gesellschaft so denken. Ich kann aber auch nachvollziehen, dass diese "Scheinheiligkeit" für die Soldaten sehr unbefriedigend ist.

Neitzel sagt nun, dass wir als Gesellschaft quasi erfolgreich verdrängt hätten, dass ein Soldat nicht zuletzt zum kämpfen da ist, dafür trainiert und danach strebt, darin immer besser zu werden. Wir möchten diese Tatsache aber nicht artikulieren, weil wir sie eigentlich nicht hören wollen. Das ist für die Soldaten aber der Beruf, den sie perfektionieren möchten und im Zweifel erkennen sie in dem angesprochenen Nachtflieger Lent primär den erfolgreichen Flieger als "handwerkliches Vorbild". Er wünscht sich, dass wir beides haben können: einmal die Vorbilder für die Gesinnung, die den Soldaten die richtigen Werte vorgeben - einmal die Vorbilder für den eigentlichen Beruf, in dem sie sich verbessern wollen.

Klar ist natürlich, dass das ein sehr schwieriges Terrain ist und wirklich nur Leistung, niemals jedoch die Ideologie so eine Figur bestimmen darf. Ich tue mich schwer damit und hätte es am liebsten, wenn wir dabei gar nicht mehr über Leute aus der Wehrmacht diskutieren müssten, aber ich will nicht ausschließen, dass es einzelne Figuren gibt, bei denen die Leistung die Ideologie so überragt, dass sie Leistungsvorbild sein könnten.

Interessant ist in dem Kontext, dass er sagt, dass sobald "eigene Geschichte" geschaffen wurde, wie beispielsweise durch Einsätze in Afghanistan, diese die alten Figuren von früher sofort verdrängt hat, es also ohnehin mit jedem Bundeswehreinsatz weniger relevant wird.

Wenn er sagt, die Panzer müssten halt die Nazimanöver üben, klingt das, als hätte die Zeit von 50 - 2022 gar nicht existiert.

Ich verstehe ihn so: Panzer im heutigen Sinne und Fallschirmspringer haben ihren Ursprung in den 30ern. Also wurde da auch sehr viel "taktische Grundlagenforschung" betrieben und viele dieser Taktiken sind wohl bis heute valide. Man macht also mit Panzern heute keine Nazimanöver, weil die Nazis so toll sind, sondern weil die sich damit damals so intensiv auseinandergesetzt haben. Das ist genau die von ihm kritisierte fehlende Differenzierung bei uns in der Gesellschaft, die zwar sagt, dass man Käfer fahren oder Autobahn benutzen kann, ohne damit Nazitum zum Ausdruck bringen zu möchten, aber wenn Panzer Taktiken aus der Wehrmachtszeit nutzen sollten, schrillen bei uns die Alarmglocken.

Ausserdem: Das war doch immerhin Verteidigung, was man ja jetzt ebenfalls wünscht, wie es heisst, und ich meine mich zu erinnern, dass die Wehrmacht mehr so auf Angriff gebürstet war.

Das ist wie bei der aktuellen Diskussion bei der Ukraine bezüglich "Verteidigungs-" und "Angriffswaffen". Die Trennung ist am Ende ja nicht so scharf zu ziehen wie manchmal suggeriert. Ein Soldat mit Gewehr kann ein Haus stürmen oder ein Haus verteidigen. Ein Verteidiger kann mit 20 Panzern einen Entlastungsangriff gegen den Angreifer fahren, um ihn aus seinem Land zu drängen. Ich kann mit Panzerhaubitzen entweder gegnerische Stellungen aufweichen, bevor ich sie angreife, oder bevor sie mich angreifen. Eine Armee muss angreifen und verteidigen können, auch wenn sie nie beabsichtigt, ein gegnerisches Land zu erobern.

Ebenso die Frage wie die Bundeswehr zur Demokratie passt. Müssen wir uns wirklich diese Frage stellen? Sind das nicht auch erledigte Debatten aus dem 20. Jahrhundert?

Doch, die Frage finde ich schon ziemlich interessant und aktuell. Vor der russischen Vollinvasion hatten wir viele Stimmen, die recht laut darüber nachgedacht haben, ob wir überhaupt noch eine Bundeswehr brauchen, weil doch eh Frieden um uns herum ist. Stetiger Abbau seit den 1990ern ist ja auch ein Anzeichen dafür, dass die unterstellte Wichtigkeit abgenommen hat. Jetzt hat es sich gedreht und gerade wir in Deutschland müssen uns ehrlich machen. Die Amis, als bisherige militärische Abschreckschutzmacht, sind nicht mehr vertrauenswürdig und plötzlich schauen Leute zb aus dem Baltikum auf uns und sagen "macht was!". Wir müssen also anfangen, auch den militärischen Aspekt in die eigenen Hände zu nehmen, nachdem wir das vorher jahrzehntelang an die Amis (und in der anderen Hälfte auf die Sowjets) outgesourced hatten. Das ist super spannend, weil sich jetzt auch entscheidet, was wir eigentlich haben wollen, wie wir das politisch/gesellschaftlich begleiten und definieren werden. Wir werden Spagat machen müssen zwischen unserem gesellschaftlich verankerten Unwillen, eine militärische Macht zu werden und der geopolitischen Notwendigkeit, uns nicht mehr auf Amerikaner verlassen zu können und selber für die Sicherheit unseres Kontinents sorgen zu müssen.

Was für eine Wand von Text. Entschuldige bitte.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 7 points 3 days ago

Some friends of mine who did their mandatory military service about 15 years ago told me their MG42 ehhh. MG3s had swastikas scratched into the body.

There is regular scandals with Neonazi groups in the military and police, including stealing weapons and ammunitions and handing citizen data to Nazi terror groups.

We currently see Germany supporting a genocidial and fascist regime in Israel. One of the coalition partners the CSU has embraced Trump and Orban and had high ranking members go there to learn how to do this style of politics. Germany is providing weapons including fighter jets to "strategic partners" like Saudi Arabia.

There is many reasons to be concerned that Germany will be "weird" about it.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It needs to be a pan-European "together we're strong" strengthening of military power, not one with big nation "guarantors" and little nations praying not to be trampled on.

Defense guarantors is always a dangerous game (have we learned nothing from History, including just now with the US!??), and having Germany as such is even more dangerous, not just for Historical reasons but also due to its current trend towards authoritarianism and Genocide-support, both via AfD and the broader political choice for Autoritarian-lite (with that "lite" being ever less so) reactions against criticism of the Gaza Genocide.

I don't know were Germany will end up, but its current trend is to move away from Democracy and Humanitarian Values, so better for the rest to not rely on Germany for their protection, lest we all in the rest of Europe end up with another German Surprise.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

I mean, technically you won't cause you have almost no Prussia left.