this post was submitted on 27 May 2026
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I first heard about it through Gabriel rockhill when he was invited in the deprogram, then i kept listening to other videos he made on the topic, i didn't read his or lusordo's books unfortunately, but I think the idea is clear enough for me (maybe)

Basically it includes every left leaning person in the west that poses as marxists (or anticapitalists) but act anticommunist and pro western, they're also revisionists replacing dialectical materialism with bourgeois science and bougeois ideologies,

The first time I noticed the usage of that term outside of Rockhill, was in an Instagram reel about China, then in a horrible red pen video that is also about China, it was so weird for me bc the usage was empty of all substance,

It feels like it's used to shame people about thinking that China is revisionist more than actually serve as a valid argument, and doesn't correlate with the actual western marxist types like zizek or varoufakis,

It quickly became synonym to Ultra-leftist or chauvinist

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[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I can't speak to all uses of it, but the way I understand the term, it can be a way of describing somebody who is all theory and no practice, to put it one way. They can talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, they're more apt to level criticisms at AES states than they are to make sacrifices and take risks toward creating one of their own.

This, in my mind, does not include everyone in the west who is lacking in practice, like it's some kind of Revolutionary Contribution Meter you have to keep full in order to speak on matters of liberation. People can have various reasons for that, some of them to do with disability or locale, that makes it abnormally difficult to participate in revolutionary organizing.

To me, it is specifically a criticism centered around people whose notion of theory is largely derived from the purity of not having had to test it against reality. Thus it's easy for them to call China revisionist or say Lenin good, Stalin bad, because they're viewing the circumstances based on what they think should have happened, rather than what were the material possibilities afforded to the people making the decisions at the time.

In this meaning, it is a facet of ultra-leftist, but it's not only that because an ultra-leftist can be elsewhere than the west. You could maybe say it is ultra-left + western chauvinism which creates the "western marxist". "Western marxist" would mean a lot more beyond insult or criticism if the west were to produce an AES state. But "western culture" in the imperial core is deeply tied up in colonization and imperialism, so it's hard to imagine a western AES state that is western in the cultural sense yet not compromised by chauvinism. It seems easier to imagine a successful western AES state as practicing eastern marxism with some tweaks for western conditions.

[–] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 3 days ago

I think it requires arrogance.

It's possible to get it wrong because of a lack of knowledge, or experience, or perspective, or cultural empathy. But Western Marxists see a discrepancy between themselves and others and assume that's because the other is uninformed or malinformed. The possibility never crosses their mind that it's something on their end, even when the comparative material results scream volumes to the contrary.

[–] salim@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I feel like ultra+chavinistic usage of the word takes away the precision of the word, This comment explains it more than I can

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 days ago

From everything I've heard about him, Gabriel Rockhill is doing good work and has good research behind what he says. I did read Commiejones' comment before posting my own and wrote mine anyway as kind of an additional thing. The notion of the compatible left may contain the "western marxist" in the meaning I'm using here, but I don't think it's the entirety of it. In any case, phrases can have multiple meanings and manage alright that way.

I'm unconvinced that the meaning I described takes anything away from understanding. I would need to hear more on why. A country like the US or Britain, for example, does have distinct "geographical tendencies" owed to hundreds of years of colonialism and subsequent imperialism. I would argue the use of the term I'm describing is more precise than compatible left, not less, and does not take away from the value of compatible left, but is more like a subset of it. For an example of why, not everyone who claims to be on the left even claims to be a marxist in the first place.