this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2026
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I've been wondering whether nationalism is inherently a left-wing or a right-wing ideology.

Historically, the answer doesn't seem obvious. During the French Revolution, nationalism was largely associated with the Left. It challenged monarchy, aristocratic privilege, and the old dynastic order by arguing that sovereignty belonged to the nation rather than to a king. In that context, nationalism was a revolutionary and emancipatory force.

Today, though, the picture seems much more complicated.

In many countries, nationalism is primarily associated with the Right: conservative movements, anti-immigration politics, cultural traditionalism, or ethnic conceptions of the nation. Examples could include much of the contemporary European far right or various forms of right-wing populism.

At the same time, there are clearly left-wing nationalist movements. Irish republicanism is probably one of the best-known examples, where nationalism has often been intertwined with socialism, anti-colonialism, and labor politics. Similar patterns can be found in other anti-colonial or national liberation movements.

What's even more interesting is that the same national movement can contain both right-wing and left-wing currents.

Ukraine seems like a good example. There is an explicitly right-wing nationalist current, represented by groups such as Azov and similar organizations, emphasizing military traditions, conservative values, and ethnic nationalism.

But there is also a distinctly left-leaning current of Ukrainian nationalism, often represented by younger activists and parts of civil society. Their understanding of national identity is frequently combined with feminism, LGBTQ rights, decolonial theory, and other progressive ideas. Ukrainian feminism, for example, draws on a long tradition of influential women writers and intellectuals, while decolonial studies have become increasingly important in interpreting Ukraine's relationship with the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union.

Am I missing something here, or is nationalism better understood as a politically neutral framework that can be adopted by both the left and the right?

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[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 10 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Here's some relevant theory from Lenin, which I'll try to summarize, because I found it insightful. Of course we have a century more of history to draw from, with some of these ideas put to the test, but it's useful to understand his position.

Marxism makes that analysis and says: if the "substance" of a war is, for example, the overthrow of alien oppression (which was especially typical of Europe in 1789–1871), then such a war is progressive as far as the oppressed state or nation is concerned. If, however, the "substance" of a war is redivision of colonies, division of booty, plunder of foreign lands (and such is the war of 1914–16), then all talk of defending the fatherland is "sheer deception of the people".

How, then, can we disclose and define the "substance" of a war? War is the continuation of policy. Consequently, we must examine the policy pursued prior to the war, the policy that led to and brought about the war. If it was an imperialist policy, i.e., one designed to safeguard the interests of finance capital and rob and oppress colonies and foreign countries, then the war stemming from that policy is imperialist. If it was a national liberation policy, i.e., one expressive of the mass movement against national oppression, then the war stemming from that policy is a war of national liberation.

Here, Lenin is correcting a misunderstanding stemming from socialist critiques of WWI and the rejection of the "defense of the fatherland" slogan. That rejection shouldn't be taken as a general rejection of defending nations, because some national projects are actually worth defending. The reason he rejected that reasoning in the context of WWI was that it was a deception: the war wasn't actually about defending nations, it was about fighting over who got to oppress colonies. We have to look at the political conflicts leading up to the war to understand what is being fought over.

In the Western countries the national movement is a thing of the distant past. in England, France, Germany, etc., the "fatherland" is a dead letter, it has played its historical role, i.e., the national movement cannot yield here anything progressive, anything that will elevate new masses to a new economic and political life. History's next step here is not transition from feudalism or from patriarchal savagery to national progress, to a cultured and politically free fatherland, but transition from a "fatherland" that has out lived its day, that is capitalistically overripe, to socialism.

The position is different in Eastern Europe. As far as the Ukrainians and Byelorussians, for instance, are concerned, only a Martian dreamer could deny that the national movement has not yet been consummated there, that the awakening of the masses to the full use of their mother tongue and literature (and this is an absolute condition and concomitant of the full development of capitalism, of the full penetration of exchange to the very last peasant family) is still going on there. The "fatherland" is historically not yet quite a dead letter there. There the "defence of the fatherland" can still be defence of democracy, of one's native language, of political liberty against oppressor nations, against medievalism, whereas the English. French, Germans and Italians lie when they speak of defending their father land in the present war, because actually what they are defending is not their native language, not their right to national development, but their rights as slave-holders, their colonies, the foreign "spheres of influence" of their finance capital, etc.

In the semi-colonies and colonies the national movement is, historically, still younger than in Eastern Europe.

Lenin argued that cultures need to go through a certain phase of development that generally requires being an independent nation. Since Western countries have already gone through this development, nationalism no longer serves any legitimate purpose, and only holds them back from progressing towards socialism. However, for colonized and oppressed cultures, they are generally first and foremost concerned with achieving national autonomy. Having achieved that, they can develop culturally and economically towards socialism, engaging as equals with the rest of the international proletariat.

However, there is further nuance:

In real life the International is composed of workers divided into oppressor and oppressed nations.If its action is to be monistic, its propaganda must not be the same for both. That is how we should regard the matter in the light of real (not Dühringian) "monism", Marxist materialism.

An example? We cited the example of Norway (in the legal press over two years ago!), and no one has challenged it. In this concrete case taken from life, the action of the Norwegian and Swedish workers was "monistic", unified, inter nationalist only because and insofar as the Swedish workers unconditionally championed Norway's freedom to secede, while the Norwegian workers raised the question of secession only conditionally. Had the Swedish workers not supported Norway's freedom of secession unconditionally, they would have been chauvinists, accomplices of the chauvinist Swedish landlords, who wanted to "keep" Norway by force, by war. Had the Norwegian workers not raised the question of secession conditionally, i.e., allowing even Social-Democratic Party members to conduct propaganda and vote against secession, they would have failed in their internationalist duty and would have sunk to narrow, bourgeois Norwegian nationalism. Why? Because the, secession was being effected by the bourgeoisie, not by the proletariat! Because the Norwegian bourgeoisie (as every other) always strives to drive a wedge between the workers of its own and an "alien" country! Because for the class-conscious workers every democratic demand (including self-determination) is subordinated to the supreme interests of socialism. For example, if Norway's secession from Sweden had created the certainty or probability of war between Britain and Germany, the Norwegian workers, for that reason alone, would have had to oppose secession. The Swedish workers would have had the right and the opportunity, without ceasing to be socialists, to agitate against secession, but only if they had waged a systematic, consistent and constant struggle against the Swedish Government for Norway's freedom to secede. Otherwise the Norwegian workers and people would not, and could not, accept the advice of the Swedish workers as sincere.

When two people bump into each other on the street, if both apologize and assume fault, it's less likely to lead to conflict than if they both try to rationally determine who's more at fault. This is essentially what Lenin calls for in what might be considered edge cases. Those of the dominant culture should err on the side of supporting secession (or at least the right to it) to avoid chauvanism, while those of the culture considering secession should be more critical and conditional about the prospect of a bourgeois-led independence movement.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 5 points 14 hours ago

Damn, this is good. The example I like to use is Vietnam's war for independence. It's hard to imagine their success without nationalism. It was useful and necessary given the context-- much less so now.

[–] grimb@hexbear.net 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I think Lenin's framework is interesting, but I would be careful about taking it at face value, because the historical practice of Leninism complicates the picture quite a lot.

The distinction between oppressed and oppressor nations is a useful analytical tool, and I agree that nationalism does not have an identical meaning in every historical context. A national movement of a people trying to escape imperial domination is not the same thing as the nationalism of an imperial power trying to maintain control over other peoples.

However, the problem is that Lenin himself did not always treat the right of self-determination as an unconditional democratic principle. He was quite explicit that recognizing the right to secession was also a political strategy something that could reduce resistance to the new state and make voluntary unity more likely. In other words, the promise of self-determination was not only about respecting national rights, but also about creating conditions where those nations would choose to remain within a socialist framework.

This becomes especially important when looking at what happened after 1917. The Bolsheviks proclaimed the right of nations to self-determination, including the possibility of secession, but when Ukraine and other nations of the former Russian Empire actually attempted to use that right, the situation changed very quickly. Ukrainian independence movements, as well as movements among other non-Russian peoples, were opposed militarily by the Bolshevik government. This suggests that the principle was applied differently depending on whether national self-determination threatened the new central authority.

That is why I think the Norway–Sweden example is more complicated than it first appears. It works well as a theoretical example of how socialists from a dominant nation should behave toward a weaker nation. But the situation of Ukraine in 1917–1921 was different: Ukraine was not simply another independent country seeking recognition; it was part of the territory over which the Bolsheviks were trying to establish a new political order. The question was no longer only about supporting self-determination, but about whether that self-determination could actually limit the power of the revolutionary state.

This does not mean that Lenin's distinction between oppressor and oppressed nations is useless. I think there is still an important point there: nationalism from a position of domination and nationalism from a position of resistance are not the same thing. But the historical lesson is also that even a theory built around liberation can become a political instrument when the people applying it have their own state interests.

So I would separate two things: the idea that leftists should oppose imperial domination and support the right of nations to decide their own future which is a principle that can be defended independently and Lenin's own political strategy, where the recognition of that right was often conditional on whether it helped or hindered the revolutionary project.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 1 points 13 hours ago

Ukraine is a difficult example, and I think we can safely say that the Soviet approach didn't work, and that's a key example that we can look at when evaluating the theory.

Like you said, Lenin's approach in practice wasn't consistent with his theoretical arguments. The approach was supposed to be a compromise between those concerns, as well as strategic concerns (the risk of divide and conquer) and political concerns (different factions calling for different things). But whatever his intents or justifications, the fact that Ukraine is such a mess today says that something went wrong in a big way.

It's easy to say that Ukraine should have just been given full independence, and that's probably correct, but we also don't know for sure what would've happened. What implications would that have had for WWII? Perhaps the strategic difficulties would have been offset by presenting a better image to other countries and getting more support.

Applying the theory to the present conflict gets even messier. In theory, Ukraine being independent would be a good thing, but in the current conflict it's really more about which sphere of influence it's in. The question of what to do when there's a secesionist movement within a nation that's not fully developed is particularly thorny. I really can't see any way things could work out for that region, unfortunately, so my stance is just to leave it alone.

In general, it's an enormously difficult and complex question, especially in practice, and the best we can do is to try to establish basic guidelines in the abstract, while looking at each situation case-by-case.