One of my mentors used to be very into WSWS and attended one of their conferences with his wife. They spent half the convention condemning US elections, and the other half promoting their presidential candidates.

He got a chance to speak during the convention and asked if anyone considered running a presidential candidate to be an endorsement for the electoral system they are simultaneously condemning. The convention got really angry with him and he was shouted down. Later, during a break, he and his wife were surrounded by angry, shouting ICFI sickos. Just when it seemed like the mob was going to become violent, someone identifying as an anarchist broke through the mob, grabbed him and his wife, threw them in his truck and sped off in an attempt to rescue them.

I signed up for their mailing list at the last no kings protest in my city. I was doing outreach for DSA, and would be considered a trotskyist myself, though from a completely different tradition than WSWS. I get texts from them time to time like "hey would you like to chat" and I'm like yeah i'd love to but I'm in DSA, and then never get a response

[–] space_comrade@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago

The convention got really angry with him and he was shouted down. Later, during a break, he and his wife were surrounded by angry, shouting ICFI sickos. Just when it seemed like the mob was going to become violent, someone identifying as an anarchist broke through the mob, grabbed him and his wife, threw them in his truck and sped off in an attempt to rescue them.

Bruh what, this feels like copypasta lmao.

[–] DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

DSA trots are so much better than trot-party trots for some reason.

All the trot orgs I've tried to work with were wreckers or cults.

But the times I've worked with the DSA I've seen trots, MLs, and anarchists working side by side. Much more productive. Definitely varies chapter to chapter I'm sure

[–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 months ago

DSA trots are so much better than trot-party trots for some reason.

Tbh, I think it comes down to DSA being a big tent. Trots in that org have to actually engage with other tendencies in good faith.

I think that ideological diversity keeps the culty weirdos away

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think it's absolutely correct to run communist candidates in an election, there's no fucking "platforming" the US Presidential election. They're the ones with the platform and you're seeking to exploit it.

There's no reason to menace someone over not understanding this extremely easy to understand concept. One way or another, every major trot group that I find out about in America are cultish freaks.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know if it is absolute correctness but there are def some viable tactics. We even have advantages as a hyper minority that major parties don't have.

I don't think that having such an extreme contradiction in your platform should be something that goes uncriticized. Lenin was explicit about when and how and why to run in elections, and his views on it changed with the conditions the revolutionary party would face.

There's also pretty sharp contradictions about running for an executive office, the Zohran Mamdani win is churning up mountains of them before he's even taken office. Its generated a ton of interest, energy and engagement though that is being converted into growing numbers of new socialists, DSA is at its highest number of members ever, becoming the largest single USAmerican socialist org in like 100 years.

There's no conclusion to be reached yet, just lots to analyse, lots to criticise, and our biases are maybe some of our worst enemies. I think we gotta be ready to be tested over and over, in a way that the ambient sectarianism of the last 50 years or so hasn't prepared us for. Imma just keep my mind on the work and try to train up as many new socialists as possible for the next phase.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Mamdani's electoral victory is entryist though, so it's not an example of the standard Marxist line regardless.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Is it entryism? Like entry into the democratic party? Like I said I'm hesitant to draw sharp conclusions like this, I'd need to see some of the analysis behind calling it entryist, and that analysis would have to include a lot of detail pertaining to the political character of NYC-DSA.

Also curious what the "standard Marxist line" is related to Mamdani's victory. Sounds like abstraction, which is fine, but a Marxist's abstraction is only as good as the particulars it allows us to tactically engage

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It's entryism because he ran as a Democrat, rather than under the banner of a socialist party. Being under the discipline of a bourgeois party is not conducive to advancing a socialist platform.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 3 months ago

Yeah, I agree. Factions in DSA call it the party surrogate strategy, these are the factions that make up the largest parts of the membership in NYC-DSA and represent the moderate social democratic wing of the org. NYC is also the largest and most electorally successful chapters in the org, which creates some deliberate tensions in contrast to DSA national.