politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
This is a review of Biden's border bill from 2024 (https://nipnlg.org/news/real-problem-border):
and
Every thing that is happening now is something the current Democratic leadership supported empowering the executive with in the leadup to the election season of '24. Democrats worked to bring this about. So when you see Jeffries or Schumer calling Trump whatever he thinks is going to get him clicks, but not pushing back on any of the policies beyond the meekest of reforms, remember how we got here.
Eh, this seems a bit of Murc's Law here.
You are saying a bill was proposed, didn't pass, and now that Republicans are going buck-wild, trying to provoke a reaction so they can invoke the Insurrection Act, all because they have both houses, SCOTUS and the White House....this is caused by the Democrats not passing a bill?
What responsibility do the Republicans have in all this? Do they have any agency here? Seems they hold all the reins right now. Why are we blaming Democrats?
Hopefully that’s not what he’s saying. I hope what he’s saying is that the neoliberal Democrats aren’t in opposition to the crazy actions the Republicans are taking, and so anything they’re doing to stop them is purely performative.
Still not quite sure I agree with this, but I’m pretty sure that’s what the OP was arguing.
That is a correct assessment of what I said.
At least in as far as the contents of the bill, its not for either of us to disagree or agree with. Its what was. Democrats submitted the bill as it is written here. Biden's whitehouse was responsible for this bill.
We could argue if it was a good bill or a bad bill; its probably obvious that I would argue it was a disastrous bill on multiple levels. Firstly, its just a terrible bill; any moral person shouldn't vote for a party which puts bills like this before congress. Second, the manner in which Biden utterly floundered in their ability to steward preferred legislation through congress showed them to be an utterly and incapable manager of the nation. It highlighted his utter incompetence at a critical moment; that he was completely cuckolded by an out of power convicted felon who had clearly attempted to over throw the democratically elected government of the United States on January 6th. It showed Biden had no ability to manage the government he was a part of. Perfectly valid to disagree with this.
What we can't disagree on is the contents of the bill, or which party was responsible for submitting it to congress, or that it was Biden's legislation. Those are matters of fact.
Jfc. Genuinely, are you confused about the context of this bill?
Because Democrats (Chris Murphy (D-CT)) submitted the bill in congress under a Democratic president, during an election year. This was the Democratic idea of how to approach immigration and immigration enforcement. Their idea. Their words. Not Republicans. Democrats. In the lead up to the election, this was the argument they took to the American people and said "This is what how we think we should approach immigration. This is how we think we should approach the border."
I'm not understanding why you think that bill is relevant here.
A bill that didn't pass from a party that has no power is the reason we have a party that authored Project 2025, is in power, and is gleefully trying to deport people like this 5 year old and his dad?
First, just read the room. Take a look around. Everyone one else in this thread recognizes the signficance of this, even if you don't. That means you are missing something. You should be starting from a position of curiosity as to what that is, instead of assuming you've got something right (which you clearly know you don't, at least on some level, otherwise you wouldn't be asking this question). This has been an on-going discussion in this forum for over 2 years, and you've been an active, contributory participant in that discussion. Even if you don't agree, you should know the basis for the arguments being made here, simply as a matter of exposure.
Yes. Democrats lost the 2024 because of how they governed and campaigned. Decisions like the one to put forwards a bill like the one being discussed contributed directly to Democrats losing the election.
We need a name for the psychological condition which is to perpetually infantilize the Democratic party. If you didn't know, from 2023 through November of 2024, Democrats were in an existential fight against fascism taking control of the US government, and they lost. And they didn't lose by accident. They lost doing things that anyone with even a basically perceptive assessment of US politics would have been able to predict. Predictions many of us here made, and were later demonstrated to be right.
The point is that Democrats failed to make a distinction between the policies they would advocate for (the bill in question) and the policies Republicans would advocate for. Democrats, in the manner of their governance and actions, believe in the kinds of border policies which result in the state which is "gleefully trying to deport people like this 5 year old and his dad?". Democrats gave up any leverage or ability to draw a distinction between themselves and Republicans because there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans in this matter.
And that matters, immensely, if you want to stop this death-spiral into fascism. We're not spiraling into fascism because of Republicans. We're spiraling into fascism because of Democrats. And apologizing or otherwise making excuses for them is fundamental to why things keep getting worse.
No, this time I see it. The only reason it didn't pass is because Republicans didn't vote for it, because Trump wanted to use the border as a wedge issue. And now Trump is doing most of the things that bill would have enabled anyway.
Republicans want this. Democrats want this.
Here's the content of the bill, https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/4361?overview=closed. The summary leaves out some things, like the increased detention capacity. You've got to read the entire bill to find stuff like that.
There looks to be some good things baked into the bill but overall it seems to be a pretty bad bill. And that's assuming the bill isn't abused by the president.
It was a terrible, unworthy, disgusting bill that undermined Democrats across the nation in their ability to stop Republicans from taking power.
yeah it left a lot out like a big increase in green cards and protection for dreamers.