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Doesn't make much difference anyway. When they elect someone like Trump twice, Americans have shown very clearly they don't deserve to have democracy as a people.
It's sad for the ones that are more moderate and responsible, but they are a minority, and we can't judge a country by a minority.
The political compass normalizes most right wingers as being moderate. Liberalism has created this situation. You cannot legislate your way to ethical capitalism.
I disagree, that's exactly what we've done in Scandinavia.
You make it sound like creative tax planning, union busting, gig economy and other forms of exploitation of workers don't exist in Scandinavia... And I'm just naming a few of the many problems with "ethical capitalism", as you call it.
Nope union busting does not exist, and the gig economy is tiny, and the little there is, is based on fair pay.
Obviously there is creative tax planning, that's kind of a game of whack a mole. Difference here is that we try to have fair tax regulation, contrary to USA that favor the rich, so much so they don't even have to be creative.
There is actually a difference between a democracy that works for the people, and one that works for the rich.
People are being threatened and/or fired for organizing workers at their workplace. I don't know what your definition of union busting is, but it happens over and over in Sweden.
Example:
https://www.arbetaren.se/2024/10/14/varslades-fran-zalandoshylager-nar-arbetsshykoparen-fick-veta-hans-roll-i-facket/
Another example, from Finland:
https://yle.fi/a/7-10077702
Strikebreaking is still a thing, and while very much illegal in its traditional form employers have figured out new ways to legally do it by importing labour from other countries:
https://www.transportarbetaren.se/strejkbryteriet-ar-tillbaka/
And regarding the general exploitation of workers, especially low-paying precarious jobs that require hard labour:
https://www.dagensmedicin.se/arbetsliv/arbetsmiljo/fack-stammer-apotea-for-manga-overtidstimmar/
I don't know which country you are from, but it doesn't really matter is I am quite sure these things happen there as well.
Capitalism is an antithesis to ethics; you can't have a capitalist economy without exploiting your workers, and while you can have more or less "nice" employers the absolute majority of them will find ways to fuck you over when push comes to shove.
Companies exist to make as much profit as possible, and they lose their power if their workers start organizing. That's why they will find every way to (legally or not) stop that from happening (as seen in the examples I have linked to above).
Technically Finland is not Scandinavian. IDK Swedish law, but here in Denmark it's illegal to fire people for unionizing. I would expect both Sweden and Finland to have similar worker protections.
There are always people that act outside the law, and I suspect your examples aren't much better than complaining about the unsafe work environment for bank robbers.
I don't care to read your anecdotes, just to tear them apart. Yes Tesla is not unionized in Sweden, but they are an exception, and it is costing them dearly. But every worker at Tesla can go somewhere else that is unionized, and that makes it impossible for Tesla to exploit workers, they probably have to offer better conditions to keep their workers from going elsewhere. Including paying fair wages, having good work conditions, and offering 5 weeks holiday, and paid leave when having a child. All things that are not normal in USA, because unions are not protected by law.
Again conditions in Scandinavian countries are better than any country that calls itself non capitalist.
So you are trying to argue that the countries that are the best to live in for both the poor and average people, do not have a good system. But some system that only exist in fantasy should be better.
You are delusional
My only points are the following:
The fact that you won't even consider to verify the sources of my claims proves me one thing - you're the delusional one in this conversation, and you seem to be willing to stray from the discussion by also attacking me personally instead.
What do you have to gain by denying this is happening? You may have had luck in your life and never had to experience these things yourself, but I have and many others with me have as well. Society can be pretty messed up when you actually take a look at how things work in practice, not stopping at how it should work.
Better than some countries, but still participating in capitalism, which cannot exist without exploitation.
You're a member of NATO, yeah?
Capitalism is not the basis of society, the law is. And just because we have free markets, doesn't automatically lead to exploitation. Exploitation is way worse in countries that claim they are not capitalist. All the best countries in the world to live in, are free market democracies.
Spoken like a truly indoctrinated westerner. Everything about your life has been defined by capitalism, including the "law" you mention. Our capitalist societies have enabled the elites to create those laws which do not apply to them.
The lesser developed countries that have had the western boots on their throats would also like a word.
France, Great Britain, and the US, along with it's NATO allies have been fist fucking the world for a very long. It's ignorant to call it a free market. It's looting the global south.
You simply can't have huge advanced societies without having some sort of leadership of different kinds.
That leadership will always be possible to call an elite in any society the size of a country of millions of people.
The difference between a functioning democracy and other countries, is that the elite doesn't get to decide everything. The people actually have a say.
Show me a country that doesn't have an elite, or shut the fuck up with your nonsense.
Nonsense? It's common knowledge that capitalism cannot exist without exploitation, but you seem to think that your NATO member countries aren't part of that demographic.
You're certainly doing a fine job contributing to climate change as well. Another form of shitting on everyone else.
The elite manipulate elections and push for laws with their capital. The societies we live in are hardly democratic. Faux democracy is more like it.
Again you are delusional, the Scandinavian countries have worked hard on environmental issues since the 70's. Harder than any other region in the world. For instance Denmark made the worlds first MegaWatt wind turbine, and remains the global leader on wind turbines to this day. The ONLY reason I'm not blocking your idiocy, is that I don't want to have it un contradicted as response to my posts.
But you are seriously delusional and unrealistic in your perception of the world.
There are limitations to what is possible, and you seem to have absolutely zero grasp of that, like if you were a child
Yeah, no, they sound super environmentally friendly, as outlined here.
How about Equinor? Maersk? H&M? Another for H&M? H&M paying 89% of their workers below the poverty line, that sounds nice!
Capitalism is a shit stain on the world, and the Scandinavian countries have been a part of neocolonialism just as much as the rest of the west.
Your big argument is it's child-like to think outside of capitalism, because it's all you know. Just because you can't be bothered to read theory, doesn't mean there aren't other options.
If the general public wasn't being deceived non-stop, bozos, like yourself, wouldn't be standing by saying "that's just the world we live in."
My argument is we're not afforded the opportunity to make decent choices, or have a voice at all, really. Stop pushing for moderates.
Hey fuck you. Eat shit. Die in a fucking chemical car fire. No, better yet, live through one and be horribly disfigured and live out your days in unbearable pain.
Point in case.
No, asshole, you don't get to come in and sanctimoniously declare that none of us deserve democracy. Fuck you and your privileged self.
And exactly how do you figure Americans "deserve" democracy? Democracy is not a naturally given right, it's something you have to work for. Americans have utterly failed to do that for 50 years, where it has been obvious the American democracy is extremely dysfunctional.
You have the government and leaders you elected. Nobody forced anybody to vote Trump. Next to nobody (only 2%) have been fighting to keep democracy, and now you are at a risk of losing it.
Please mind that I also wrote:
I am not talking about individuals here, I very explicitly stated we can only judge based on the majority.
But just go ahead and call me an asshole for pointing out the failures of your own people if it helps.
You're stating that anyone doesn't ~~deserve~~ democracy. Authoritarians and abusers will say similar things while imposing their will on others.
I've been warning Americans about this shit for more than a ~~decade~~ 20 years (since 2005 on reddit), I have a right to claim Americans didn't heed the warnings.
When faced with a preventable problem and you do nothing about it, there is no excuse when that preventable problem finally hits you.
I'm so fucking tired of American exceptionalism, you always thought you were #1, only now it is beginning to dawn on many Americans, that maybe they have a problem.
Now we even see Americans whining about how bad it is, and how depressed they are about it, begging for help from outside.
But that's not how it works. We can't fix your problems with your democracy from Europe or any other place outside USA. You have to fix it for yourself, and if you do, then you can claim you deserve democracy, because you actually did something to save it.
Edit:
BTW, we have had a few demonstrations against Trump here in Denmark that were bigger than in USA when the sizes of populations are accounted for. And Trump is for sure not threatening our democracy.
This one was because Trump offended our forces:
https://nyheder.tv2.dk/live/samfund/2026-01-31-danske-veteraner-demonstrerer-mod-trump
This was about the Trump tariffs:
https://www.information.dk/indland/2026/01/demonstrationer-sende-klart-signal-trump-groenlaenderne-staar-alene
This is a protest against US forces being allowed in Denmark:
https://arbejderen.dk/indland/protester-loerdag-er-start-paa-bevaegelse-mod-udenlandske-tropper-i-danmark/
This one was against Trump/USA to stay away from Greenland:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J10XOyml_kQ&t=6s
That's how democracies work. 4 significant protests in Denmark against USA since Trump took over! Most of which support our government, except for the one against allowing US troops in Denmark.