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One big problem with plug in solar (or batteries) is that they deliver more power than should be available, behind the fuses.
With an 800W panel, an appliance could draw about 3.5A more before tripping the breaker, which can cause problems.
It's not very likely, but it's also not the case that governments are just reluctant for no reason. These things being installed poorly is also quite a problem, Germany has had more than a few smashing down from a balcony.
That's why the power you are allowed to install is limited. And also why they shut down without powet in the socket. The safety issue was a big concern and it took years of deliberation in Germany to get to that point. You can be assured that if something like that is allowed in Germany, it is pretty safe. The safety bodies are watching these issues with hawk's eyes, and these are professionals which know what they are doing and which move things into a good direction.
Honestly I am surprised why these things are not much more popular in any region where you need climatization in summer - they deliver power when it is most needed, and grids are at risk to fail.
Edit: Addition: If you are concerned, that the panels create more power than the wiring in your home can hold, you can reduce the power in the fuse to the grid. Say, you have a fuse to the grid that allows 32 Ampere, but the wiring holds only 24 Ampere. In addition, you install two balcony panels which have a total of 2000 Watt, or 2 Kilowatt.
Now, what you do: To be on the safe side without the panels, you reduce the fuse to the grid to 24 Ampere, so that the grid can never deliver more than the wiring in your home can sustain. Now, you factor in the panels: 2000 Watt at 230 Volt yield 2000 W / 230 V = 8.7 Ampere. Now, you subtract these from the 24 Ampere that your wiring can hold, and you get to 15.3 Ampere which you can put as the limit to your fuse to the grid. You can round that up to 16 Ampere (which is, by the way, the bog standard rating for household fuses in Germany).
The above number is equivelent to 3690 Watt. That should work, because nowadays the only appliance which draws a lot of power is the electric stove - nobody heats any more using pure electrical heaters since they are just too expensive.
The UK though has the added spice of the uniquely unsafe ringmain wiring standard, in which 24A cable in the wall is protected by a 32A breaker at the distribution panel. It's only "safe" if the load is evenly balanced around the ring, and the ring isn't broken (that's why UK plugs need fuses in them - to make it harder to severely unbalance the ring by pulling 32A out of a single socket, and equally to try and protect the appliance cable if a short or similar tries to.)
I've not sat down with a pen and paper to work out how having a generator somewhere on the ring affects things - presumably the authorities have...
It's probably okay, in the usual UK buildings, for the first 24h you'd be cooking the dampness out of the wall.
But doesn't the plug based amp mitigate the very problem you're worried about at the appliance level?
Isn't that what I wrote?
It's an imperfect mitigation, though - the typical fuse in the plug is 13A, so you only need two fully loaded sockets and you're already in trouble. Fortunately these days nobody is plugging in 3-bar electric fires or immersion heaters, and it's quite hard to find those kinds of loads outside the kitchen, so it's less of a practical issue, sure. (This is also why UK electrical code recommends that any load greater than 2kW should be given its own radial instead of being plugged into the ringmain. It's not unusual for the kitchen to be on a dedicated radial (or two) even if the rest of the house is on rings.)
(You could instantly make UK wiring a lot safer by just eliminating the over-rating of the breakers - i.e. if you have a 24A ring, put a 24A breaker on it. In the olden days that would probably have caused nuisance trips (3-bar fires and all,) but these days I doubt anyone would notice.)
Your implication in how you wrote was that the appliances are at risk. However the built in fuses in the plugs should mitigate that
One thing about the old standards is that, as you said previously, it might trip more with less efficient devices, however it was also a case that it wasn't trip switches, but fuse boxes with physical fuses. So it wasn't just a hassle, they needed replacement at expense, and a dependency on adequate stock.
Those days are gone, so yes, modern standards should be updated.
No, the implication was that the in-wall wiring was at risk.
The fuses in BS1363 plugs specifically are not intended to protect equipment, btw. They are there to mitigate the risks of ringmain in-wall wiring, and to protect the appliance cable from catching fire in a short. (That's why devices without a cable - e.g. wall-warts - don't have the fuse.)
Appliances always need their own internal fusing if they are to be protected. A 3A slow blowing fuse in a BS1363 plug offers no protection at all to modern electronics (and even that assumes the householder didn't just stick a 13A in because it was all they had to hand - the normal case.)
Yes, I understood your point. However, someone who has never seen a UK plug, or wasn't aware of the fuse would not. That's why I made it explicit. The main purpose may be to protect the wiring but my understanding is that the fuse does also protect the appliance, but yes, they should also have an internal fuse.
Are you saying the plug fuse offers no protection as they are already safer? I thought they help protect in case of a power surge or crossed wire. However it's a long time since I looked at UK power supplies, lol (actually Ireland, but it's the same, although I'm sure some regulations are different).
The fuse plug offers no protection because the average modern electronic (not electric - hairdryers etc.) appliance needs a much smaller fuse. 3A (the smallest UK plug fuse) is about 700W, at which point most things short of a kettle are already toasted. (That said, it's not really clear what "protecting the appliance" means - you can't push current, only pull - so if the appliance is drawing more than it should it's probably already toast. What you actually need to do is hopefully stop any components in a broken appliance which may go pop and start a fire doing so - and transistors and the like can go all twisted-firestarter at 10s of mA, let alone 3A at 240V.)
Let me try to reiterate more clearly: The purpose of the socket fuse is the same as the purpose of ringmain wiring: to allow saving copper on cheaper cable.
The ringmain has a big flaw - unbalanced loads can overload the in-wall wiring, because it uses cable rated less than the breaker protecting it. Fuses in plug sockets help make it harder to unbalance the ring (because the most you can draw from any one socket is 13A, no matter how many extensions you string together.) In "radial world", you have a 16A breaker on 16A wire, and all that happens if you trail extension leads together is you trip the breaker - so no need for a fuse in the plug.
Another flaw of the ringmain is that 32A breaker. If a device fails with a short, it can draw more than 7KW without the breaker tripping; that's enough not just to burn the cable, it'll weld the pins in the plug and socket. The fuse in the plug mitigates this - again, with radial wiring, no need, because the most you can draw is the 16A the socket is rated for without tripping the breaker.
The third helpful feature of the plug fuse was it allowed for cheaper appliance cable; think old-school lamps with essentially bell-wire cables. In the olden days in the UK there were dedicated lighting sockets (with round pins) for these, on a dedicated lighting circuit with a lower rated fuse in the distribution board - the house I grew up in still had a few of them - but with the move to BS1363 as standard, there needed to be a way to safely fit the new plug to those old lamps without burning the house down - the replaceable fuse allowed for this. It's not a coincidence that the other (than 13A) common fuse sizes are 3A and 5A - those were the ratings of the two different round-pin lighting plugs which the new plug & socket replaced.
None of these purposes of the plug fuse is actually protecting the appliance; they are all about protecting the ringmain and the cable. The fuses in the plug are simply too coarse (3A, 5A and 13A, of which even the lowest is far too much for modern electronics short of gaming-rigs,) and the fuses too slow-blowing.
Ok, well clearly Iβve been misinformed, thanks for taking the time to explain in detail.
800W is just 3.5A so probably can be managed
All solar systems do that, which is a good thing! It prevents lots of dead powerline workers. But that's not the only reason, solar converters need to "tune" their AC frequency to that of the grid. No grid? Nothing to match. No power.
It's also why, if you want a stand-alone system, you don't just need a really big breaker between your house and the grid, but also a different type of converter entirely.
That's a persistent myth, and it drives me nuts every time I read it. If power line workers are working on something that is supposed to be dead, they treat it as live and work it with hot sticks until they have bonded all the phases together and to ground. This is done both at the point of disconnect and where the work is actually being done.
Even if they didn't do this, your little inverter is trying to backfeed the entire grid. The load it sees is indistinguishable from a dead short. Your inverter would overload and trip offline, even if it wasn't watching the grid voltage and frequency.
There just isn't a special risk to power line workers.
Hmmm, I'm not an electrical engineer, and really not a line worker, but I do workplace safety for a living. I was sure you're wrong, but it is indeed not listed anywhere in the sector's risk inventory here. I stand very corrected.
There is a generic "Make the site safe from both ends" risk mitigation though, and it makes sense that you take the same measures no matter what the source of the potential risk. Doesn't matter if the cause is "all the solar panels" or "Some absolutely moron did things wrong several decades ago" or just plain "shit broke yo".
There is, indeed. One of the "sides" they have to consider is the possibility of a live line coming into contact with the disconnected line that they are currently working on. Lines crisscross frequently, and in the aftermath of a storm, a downed wire on one line could bring it into contact with and inadvertently energize another line.
The steps they take to mitigate the risk of an entire neighborhood worth of power being dumped onto the line they are working is more than adequate to mitigate the risk of backfed solar: They deliberately bond all phases together on the dead line, so any fault is shunted through the short and away from the workers.
I'm saying that the "risks" of backfed solar are far less than the risks that they already mitigate, and certainly do not justify keeping plugin solar off the grid.
(I am not saying that backfeed inverters don't need to mitigate the risk as well; I am saying that mitigation at the device level is one of several redundant safety measures.)
Then again, it is cultural tradition to let things fall of a balcony in Germany.