this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2026
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Question that’s been banging around my head for a bit: I haven’t played the Fallout games, just have a surface level understanding of them, but I’ve watched the show. The show makes the Legion out to be a bunch of dweebs larping in the desert. Like The Brotherhood could wipe them out without a fuss. But when I looked up some lore on them, it said they control a large swath of land in the game universe.
So is the show depicting them as much less impressive than they are in the game? Or is it one of those situations where a convergence of factors led them to gain a lot of territory despite their weak position?
The show is good for personal drama, but terrible for anything about logistics and they really have a hard on for the brotherhood.
The NCR was somehow wiped out because a single city (which was depicted like it was some minor suburban farmstead rather than a sprawling metropolis) got hit with a Fatman nuke.
Similarly Caesars legion is depicted as two camps of maybe a 100 guys each, when that faction was fucking massive, containing most of the Midwest. Consisting of 86 different subjugated tribes - which should, at least for a good bunch, moreso be thought of as small nations.
The show, likely because Bethesda is like this, depicts a post-apocalyptic hellscape, despite Armageddon occurring several hundred years ago. Fallout isn't post-apocalyptic. It's post-post-apocalyptic.
The two first games and new Vegas show a world moving on, nations developing, there's talk of trade and roads and standing modern armies. Of course the scale is kept at a level computers could handle, but it was always indicative of something much larger. Mr. Houses securitron facility gives a sense of the real scale. As does the concept art for Freeside.
Caesars legion was doomed to fail, but not because it was teeny tiny.
It was always silly how they were somehow a threat when they were just larpers in football gear, but it was also made clear in the game that they were only really a threat because of corruption in NCR, and most of Caesars plan for victory depended on a lot of guerilla tactics behind enemy lines.
Part of that larp is also meant as critique. Caesar is a fucking loser idiot, mildly more competent than his competitors were. Like any mediocre man he gets delusions of grandeur and suddenly we are reviving Rome (which is somehow a refutation of the old world? Caesar is a dumbass, it's so well written, I love it.)
edit: You might find some answers to your questions in this thread
Yeah the depiction of the NCR is a little all over the place in the show: first it seems like they’re non-existent anymore, well wait they’ve got a few ragtag members left, well wait they have an entire, well-equipped army.
I think there was some rewrites between Season 1 and 2, and the NCR was pivoted to be more of a focus. Basically the only consistent complaint about season 1 was the bizarre treatment of the NCR, I don't think the writers expected people to care as much as they did, so they were dragged into season 2 as a mainstay.
That's because they are. Caesar was an educated NCR citizen (an anthropologist or something, I don't remember), who through cunning and unseen brutality, and knowing to surround himself by much more competent people (his legati), managed to unite a ragtag group of warring "tribes" in Arizona. He larped Roman stuff because he was a nerd who found some old books about Rome in a ruin, but at the end he was just a more successful warlord.
By murdering or enslaving everyone who opposed them, and by employing basic war strategy and logistics they overwhelmed every other group East of the Colorado, covering a lot of land really fast, fast enough to concern other regional powers, like Mr. House or the (not yet nuked) NCR.
If the courier (the protagonist of F:NV) is smart enough, they can realize that this blitzkrieg-like strategy is unsustainable in the long term, and if the legion keeps conquering territory it will collapse under its own contradictions. The only thing keeping middle ranking officers from rebelling is Caesar's leadership, and that the rate of conquest outpaced the stresses of governance. Caesar has also killed or kept down some of his smarter generals, so he's left alone at the top of the legion. Should the legion stop expanding, or Caesar die, it would fragment immediately into factions vying for power.
In the show, Caesar has died years ago, and two factions claim to be his true successors, but it looks like they don't really control territory the way they did when Caesar was alive, because they've gone back to warring amongst each other, and because these paleo-fascists can't keep state power, since all they know is conquest and brutality.
They've always been larping dweebs, who happened to be a little better organized and had better leadership than their opponents, until they weren't anymore. The way they're portrayed in the show just shows what all the pageantry is without any actual state power.
Yeah I remember people were complaining that they were greatly reduced and I was all "did you not play the game where it states plainly like a dozen fucking times that this shit pretty much dies with Caesar"
It literally is one of the dialog options you can use to talk Lanius out of attacking Hoover Dam. The Legion had so little time to be fleshed out that its fans just fill the gaps with whatever fascist power fantasy they want to believe and think it's canon.
It doesn't help that Caesar is a dumb person's idea of an intelligent person. He just uses random latin phrases, misunderstands Hegel, and people who haven't picked up a book since the 9th grade suddenly think he's some kind of mastermind.
Sometimes, I think of what New Vegas could be if Obsidian was given more than 18 months. The fact that they had something passable, let alone as good as it is, in the constraints Bethesda put on them is amazing.
Agreed 100%. Just imagine Pentiment-level writing in the Fallout Universe.
That's the point of him though.
I know that, but so many people take his character at face value, like he's some actually cool person.
Oh yeah, that does happen. It's so incredibly stupid. "BUT THE ROADS ARE SAFE AND NO TAXES" motherfucker what do you think tribute is and what are the roads safe from?
Almost as bad is all the Mr. House stans. Oh yeah guys lets have the literal Wizard of Oz metaphor have a go at it.
Yeah but ths "dead after Caesar" they showed is what seems to be a 50/50 split between two factions, for a combined total of what seems to be 3 dozen dudes
The legion presented in the game had to have more than a few dozen dudes because you literally can't control as much territory as they were stated to control without like, a thousand times as many
The show writers just don't understand scale, i.e. they give JUST THE WESTERN CHAPTERS of the Brotherhood enough FLYING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS that they could feasibly project power across the entire fucking planet, and this isn't questioned
We went through this in the last fallout thread. The complaint isn't that they're diminished, it's that the depictions of factions and the realities of the world are incredibly inconsistent. Caesars legion are reduced to a silly little camp, while the brotherhood somehow has flotillas of Prydwen to just throw away.
What is shown at every level of Caesars camp is also not a faction that has fallen due to any of the contradictions the game highlighted. Caesars corpse hasn't even begun to bloat, yet they're this little fuckass group. They're just that size because of nothing.
As is tradition.
Part of the story of New Vegas is that the Legion is stretching themselves very thin trying to take over Hoover dam and leaving themselves vulnerable, if they lose the battle of Hoover Dam in the canon it's pretty much implied they will be almost entirely destroyed.
And they're also not fighting the NCR, but an outpost of the NCR that has a difficult time with supply lines and is stretched thin. The consensus among fans is that, without the Courier's intervention, Caesar's Legion might be able to win the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, but the further they continue west, the more the NCR would kick their ass. If they actually made it to California, the NCR would beat them so hard, it would make the First Battle of Hoover Dam look like a victory to the Legion.
Yes, and no. The NCR is an imperialist power, and needs to keep control of Nevada and New Vegas (especially the food from the sharecropper farms, and the energy from Hoover dam) to keep the metropolitan government going. They might kick Caesar's Legion's ass, but the cost to the NCR could be so great that it might be just a pyrrhic victory, with the NCR collapsing shortly without the continued flow of energy and resources into California. That's why they're putting everything on the line to defend Hoover Dam.
That's sort of why the battle for Hoover Dam is pivotal though. Sure if the Legion were to ever actually fight the NCR, it'd get it's ass whooped. But the NCR has become reliant on the power delivered from Hoover Dam and will not do well without it. It'd still fuck up the legion, but it would also collapse.
That's sort of the irony of the battle as well: The Dam is at the same time pivotal for the NCR, but also not worth enough to actually dedicate any resources.
I think the show writers just don't understand scale, which is why the legion which was supposed to control like half the midwest past the hoover dam is just like 36 guys pointing guns at each other, and the Brotherhood of Steel which is supposed to be, yknow, kinda weak has like a dozen chapters of hundreds of dudes each with a fucking flying aircraft carrier
Aircraft carriers that they'll just willy nilly lose in a pointless fight by the way.
That elder going "we can finally conquer America" when he finds the McGuffin... My guy, you have 12 flying Dreadnoughts, you don't need a McGuffin.
Yeah exactly
TBF part of that might be a TV show budget thing. Building one aircraft CG model that doesn’t need to do a lot complicated animations vs hiring enough extras to create the impression of huge masses of soldiers and making a giant set location for it.
Idk I feel like they could have implied the scale of the legion through other ways, then. Or like at least not have had the civil war essentially be entirely contained within the same camp (which made it just seem small scale to the point of it being a joke)
You could just CG a large camp. Or in any way script it so it's clear they've got a massive nation they're fighting over, and not just the vibe of being caesar. Or script it so it's clear they've lost all that territory due to something. It's like with the NCR that got destroyed by a single nuke in a single city - oh wait the NCR is back actually.
The show is good with personal drama and I like the action scenes, but it's a bit too
with showing Stuff From The Games and it's got too much of a hardon for the brotherhood.
when the desert ranger popped that deer, but it made no fucking sense. It's pretty clear it's not something the writers have a grasp on.
Like sure I went
They kinda did that in the last episode, but CG versions of large groups like that end up looking kinda weird, at least on TV show budgets.
Their main territory was located east of Las Vegas in Arizona and New Mexico, the so called 87 Tribes; like the NCR they were overextended in Nevada, in fact most of the factions in New Vegas are overextended in some manner which is why the player character has such a outsized impact on the politics of the region