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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023
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Well I’m glad to hear more people stating the obvious. Well done Bern.
By only condemning human rights violations by Hamas and tacitly approving bigger war crimes by Israel, our American and European leaders are choosing sides in a very obvious and hypocritical manner.
We are unnecessarily antagonizing a billion Muslims and making ourselves a target for terrorism by blindly supporting an unjust apartheid state.
I don't want to on the side of Hamas, but I also don't want to be on the side of Israel.
Why drag us into this?
USA and rest of the Western world has enabled Israel for the last 70 years while the Palestinians have been systematically disenfranchised and radicalized. No one put in geniune effort to de-escalate this situation and now shit has hit the fan.
Are you a bot? Because you have your account set as one.
Hamas: murders a thousand I Innocent people, rapes a bunch of women (and by that I include girls), and murders a bunch of babies
Leftists: Well that's what they get for existing where they were existing.
Yeah that's exactly what they said...
If you're supporting Hamas you are evil. I don't have any interest in any nuance in this situation. They are terrorists that use human shields. There's nothing you can say that makes that ok, full stop. You are one of the evil people if you agree with Hamas.
The thing is that you're saying a bunch of people support Hamas when they obviously don't.
https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields
Whoops. Would you call Israel terrorists too?
Oh well, you already said you have no interest in any nuance.
In that case, you should go to reddit worldnews and join the mob of bloodthirsty assholes asking to raze Gaza to ground.
The IDF is dropping white phosphorus on children's hospitals, a blatant display of cruelty that makes no pretense of being necessary to fight Hamas. As evil as Hamas is, and I'm not downplaying that at all, the Israeli government is worse.
Most western countries feel and are guilty because they repeatedly killed and exiled Jews and promised them land as retribution that didn't belong to them in the first place.
About 1/3 of the people living in Palestine were jewish at the time of the partitition. Are you saying the entirety of land should have been given to the muslims?
No. I think there is no fair solution as long as both groups demand it all should belong to them. They will both feel wronged. I am also pretty sure that pressure on the Jewish population would have increased there when Israel would not have been formed.
Ok, but then where does this lead us? Are the jews more wrong than the muslims in trying to kill the other one? Is anyone supporting either side more wrong than the other? Us on the sidelines can condemn the cruelty but at the core there's no clear cut right and wrong like when Native Americans were wiped out by colonists...
In a better world maybe the UN would have enforced the partitition and after several generations shit would have cooled down. But that's something that was impossible in '48
I hope you aren't really asking me that lol. I have no idea. Apart from suggesting they should all just love each other and shake hands I don't know what else could work.
But historically I think there is no example where a division of a country has worked out. Korea, Vietnam, Germany,... It was always a disaster.
And how would you even fairly split Jerusalem, for example?
Chechoslowakia?
Jerusalem was not to be split in the UN plan, but given a special status
A refreshing take for sure, and even though Bernie is Jewish he sees this cruel regime for what it really is. There are no excuses for harming innocent civilians, ever!
A lot of jewish actually call this out as a genocide, its just the world leader playing their politics while the people are getting murdered on the ground.
Yes I'm aware. I also know many Israeli citizens condemn the actions of their government. I just think that as an American Jewish politician, Bernie has an incentive not to criticize the Israeli government but he still does, and that takes some courage.
Jews != Zionists
Problem is, at least where I live, the majority of the Jewish community fervently supports Israel.
There's nuance required there.... because there's a wide gulf between fervently supporting the right of Israel to exist and supporting the actions of their government.
I think it's more pointing out how many politicians (and people in general), especially Republicans, who won't criticize them, and even say criticizing them is anti-semitic. Him being Jewish means he has more cultural connection to them than they do, yet he still points it out. He also can't reliably be called anti-semitic because he is a semite (at least the modern meaning of the word. I'm not sure if he speaks Hebrew or other Semitic languages).
This is exactly what I meant. I have no prejudice against Jewish people whatsoever, I'm simply admiring the balls it takes to be an American Jewish politician and taking a stance against the Israeli government. He's risking losing a part of his supporters but he still stands for what's right.
It's different because it's Israel and Israel has a stranglehold over US politics.
There's no way Bernie doesn't speak Yiddish, I'd wager he spoke Hebrew at one point in his life.
Moreover, the idea that Israel somehow represents Jewish people as a whole is simply Israeli propaganda that promotes Israel's interests at the expense of non-Israeli Jews.
Add another troll to the block list