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this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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Charge time, charging infrastructure, and price are the things keeping me from getting an EV.
Regarding the first two, I find charging my EV at home means I rarely have to consider public charging. I’ve started to find stopping at the gas station way more inconvenient.
When I lived in the city, I maintained charge with a standard 120v outlet. In a rural area, I am doing well with a 240v (15a).
12 hour+ road trips are the only thing I hesitate on much anymore — sometimes I love the EV road trip, and other times I’m just looking to make good time.
It's a problem for those that cannot charge at home. My apartment complex will not install chargers and I have no easy way to run a charger myself.
That's not to say your point does not stand, but it's still not a reality for folks like me quite yet. After my last car was totaled (RIP), I went with a hybrid. Pretty good fuel economy (35-45mpg in the city, 50-60 on the highway) and it hasn't given me any issues so far.
If I still need a car by the time this one bites the dust, then I would definitely consider if an EV would fit my needs.
There will be laws if there aren't already where you are that will require apartment buildings to install chargers if a tenant wants one, at the tenants cost.
There will then also be incentives for that, making it easier.
Its too obvious a problem to do nothing about with the transition goals in place.
Edit: also if they're such dicks about an install you might even be able to install a portable charger that you can remove when you leave, or have it just be a plug. You don't necessarily need to pay for a permemant fixture level 2 smart charger.
That would be big for EV infrastructure. I see where there is a push for such regulations now after looking it up after reading your reply, but that was not a thing when I needed it. Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to get an EV when I already have a car right now.
Before I bought my hybrid, I looked into the portable chargers and the parking spots are too far away from where I can access an outlet. But they would work for other folks, so it does open up the possibility for more people.
Jeez, who wants to foot that bill so the next guy doesn't?
That's why I suggested just a plug vs a whole charger, but you also might own the place in a condo.
Having a plug installed also benefits the property owner if renting so they might be willing to split the cost.
And if you really want an EV it might be worth it.
Running a plug to an apartment building parking lot properly would not neccesarily be cheap. I doubt a renter would be better off paying for that vs just running an efficient gas car. It only makes sense if you do it for the whole building at once at least then you get some economies of scale with bringing an electrician out and running wire through a parking lot.
It's possible there might already be power nearby somewhere and adding a 120v plug isn't that complicated. If they can't put it on it's own meter, you might need to enter into some agreement with the owner where you show them your cars monthly charging and then pay them accordingly, or they might do a fixed rate.
There are options there.
It really comes down to the owner and how much of a dick they want to be.
Its not complicated but it wouldn't be cheap to pay an electrician to properly install an outlet out to the parking lot. If you own the condo it would be worth it probably but paying out of pocket for a rental units infrastructure I don't see paying off for the prospective electric car owner.
Its always way more work than people expect to "just install a new plug here" in an existing and finished place. I would say the solution here is to require rental property owners to start supplying outlets to parking lots.
Maybe I'm wrong. People should get a quote for getting it done if they're interested. But I think it'll be surprisingly pricy in most places.
For most use cases, you won't even need a full charger, just a standard outlet to plug in the car's standard slow charger.
We leased a PHEV, in part, because of this. The other half was finding an EV that comfortably fit 5 people for road trips (live in the western US).
Which one did you get? I would love a plug in hybrid, but I need the third row for the dog, and all of them get middling reviews.
Not the guy you were talking to but a family member recently got the Kia Sportage PHEV, they are very happy with it.
No third row, but it's a very roomy SUV
A roomy trunk would work for the dog. Thanks!
Side question, are people still stealing Kias as a social media challenge?
Not the OP, but the Kia thefts were on their lower trim packages that did not have push to start options and used keyed ignition instead. Any of their PHEVs or hybrid models tend to only have the higher trim packages so they can charge more for them (I own a Kia Niro PHEV), and the push to start keyless starters have the immobilizer installed. It’s started to die down a bit on the thefts, but make sure that the model you’re looking at has push to start AND immobilizer installed before buying.
I love my Kia, and I would recommend them highly based on my personal experience, but just make sure you research before picking one up.
Thank you, that's very helpful!
I wouldn't know 🤔
I'll have to tell my sister to keep an eye out though
Mazda CX-90. Very comfortable 3rd row. Ours is the 7-seater with captains chairs in the middle row. It’s also a blast to drive.
Thanks! My wife had a Mazda 3 back in the day, and I always enjoyed driving it. I didn't even know Mazda was making a PHEV.
This is Mazda’s new PHEV platform and flagship car. It’s a 2.5L Turbo and has a 26 mile battery (gets more than 30 in summer, 15 in winter). Pure EV mode, Off Road, Normal, Sport (which is more than adequate for overtaking), and Towing if you get the package.
90% of the time we’re in EV only, but when we need range the gas will get us over 400 miles consistently. It comes with a level 1 charger but supports level 2 up to 32A for faster charging. It does not support level 3. Only real issue is the battery is smaller than we’d like but we’re also in the west where everything is spread out. Even then, as I said, we’re still in EV only most of the time. It does have aggressive regen braking with a setting to lighten it (never tried it) so it recovers charge pretty quickly. It can recharge the EV battery while driving but gas mileage will drop by a few miles/gal and it takes a full hour from dead. It does have a healthy reserve so when it’s stopped it’s almost always in EV with the engine stopped. It also has Auto Hold so you don’t have to leave your foot on the brake at lights. This works in gas mode as well. However, it defaults to off so you have to press the button each startup.
Suspension is stiffer than some like but it’s no worse than modern Kia’s. This is with the 21” wheels, 19’s would be softer. Steering wheel is typical Mazda stiff so it tracks straight absolutely sublimely.
Ours has the upgraded Bose audio system and, as an audio snob, it’s actually very good. Has 3 subs (1 large in the trunk, 2 smaller in the front footwells). It can sound boomy or pretty clear depending on EQ you prefer. It’s 90% as good as a system I built in my previous vehicle. It’s even better at low volume and higher speeds thanks to the adequate auto volume/EQ leveling. I wouldn’t bother upgrading the speakers.
It definitely still has the zoom, zoom.
Thank you! That's very helpful
Those and battery range as well for me are still issues. I'm sure in 5 years at least some of these problems will be solved. Though I doubt the price of EVs would come down to a reasonable point any time soon.
A lot of manufacturers are working towards a cheaper EV, they just don't know how to make a good profitable cheap EV yet. That's why they're doing the bigger more expensive ones first, so they can figure out how to do it cheaply, and also gives themselves time for all the infrastructure they're building like battery factories to come online which will also reduce cost.
There's a few cheaper ones out there like the Bolt, but GM lost money on that. It was just to get the brand out there and learn how to make EVs and get some ZEV credits. It's why they never went large scale with it.
But it's coming. In 5 years there will be plenty of cheaper EVs, and more of the consumer infrastructure will be improved too.
If you own a single family home with off street parking ….. adding a circuit for a charger cost slightly less than adding a circuit for an electric range, and the charger itself was only a few hundred.
I’m still too new to EVs so really haven’t had to charge much yet but 48a level 2 charger goes pretty fast.
Most of the time, treat it like charging your phone. Plug it in at night or when you get home and it will always be fully charged in the morning (or I have mine set to 80% to help the battery last longer). You could make this happen with a much slower charger and some people even get away with standard outlet
Road trips are a different story but I haven’t taken one yet. However I keep reading Tesla’s can charge a battery from 5% to 80% in half an hour and Hyundais are faster. That doesn’t seem bad at all
I definitely had charge anxiety, but my ioniq 6 comes with a simple wall charger that does the job nightly. It's like plugging in your phone.
I don't like the idea of the battery going out and now you've basically got the choice of nearly the cost of another car or getting another car.
Same thing happens when the power train of an ice goes out, ins about the same time as the expected battery death as well. The greater majority of ice vehicles don’t last decades either
What drive train costs $18k before labor?
Also I can rebuild an engine or transmission to save even more money.
I can't rebuild a battery in my garage.
I'm not opposed to EVs, but no one seems to be concerned about the maintenance once these things get old.
Battery banks are closed to 10k for most, engine and tranny easily run 7k for parts and you have to factor in costs of oil and gas for them over that decade lifespan.
So few people are capable of at-home engine or tranny rebuilds that it isn’t even a realistic consideration statistically
The problem is a drive train failure is a total failure. It either works at a 100% or not at all. A battery deteriorates non-linearly over time. So while you might have to replace both at the same time, the battery has had less effective use.
But a car that now only does 20 miles vs 200 before needing charge is still plenty usable for groceries or many work commutes while you save/wait for replacement, an ice power train failure means absolute dead lump of metal.
A car won't be driving if it only has 20 miles. That'd be a battery failure that prevents the car from operating.
200 becomes 190, 180, 170 ... 140.
At least on a Tesla below 140 would be covered under the 8 year warranty as that's more degradation than should happen (unless you're over mileage)
It'll keep going down from there, but there's a point where the battery just won't function properly with the car anymore due to voltages or something to do with the level of battery degradation.
So hypothetically when it's hit 100, it won't be able to accelerate properly anymore making it no longer viable as a car battery.
At that point you could maybe go into a secondary life as stationary storage which has less demands, or recycle it.