525
It always boils down to this
(lemmy.world)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
525 points (94.3% liked)
Late Stage Capitalism
5624 readers
36 users here now
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
What I'm hearing is a tonne of supposition without backed up facts and hard reporting.
I would love to see a link to a news story covering the evidence. Otherwise this sounds like a social media consensus built in a speculation-echo-chamber.
It's funny you talk about speculation, because right now there are people in Washington making a ton of money when the government sells or gives equipment to Ukraine to prolong this war.
You are probably getting too much of your news from social media.
I beg you: find news organizations that you can judge as credible, and go directly to them for news.
I beg you: literacy, especially critical reading skills, are a blessing. You are squandering that blessing.
HAHAHAHA now that's fucking rich of you, coming here from the imperialist social media consensus.
But ok, i will humor you, though note that one sealion got banned already in this thread.
Nordstream.
Power plant, here, here, here
Dam here and here
Donetsk bombings plenty here
Uranium shells effects are pretty obviously researched in Iraq and Serbia, about howm seding it to Ukraine here and here. They are even bragging about it ffs.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using an URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !ukraine_war_news@lemmygrad.ml
Some of those links are broken, but I'm getting the jist. Not all those links support your position, tho. Many that are not Russian news orgs are pointing the blame at Russia.
The politico article makes sure to point out that Russia is placing artillery in a position very close to the nuclear plant. That's Bad, and inviting disaster.
~~The first link is a conspiracy blogger.~~ this is patently not true! Leaving this up as an abject lesson in doing a little more reading before reacting to reflexive vitriol. I don't particularly like that Ukraine shot at a nuclear power plant, but...
There is no real great answer to the question of "how do you behave when someone as a boot to your throat?" This war, started by Russia, is monstrous, in no small part because of the horrible cycle of retribution.
I didn't know that Ukraine actually fired on Russian installations near a nuclear power plant. Thank you for informing me. I don't like it, but I blame Russia for daring Ukraine to attack it.
Seymour Hersh is a conspiracy blogger??? You want to tell me all the previous times when he was correct like was also conspiracy theories? My Lai, Watergate, CIA support for Pinochet, Israel having nukes, Abu Ghraib, etc. ???
Small part of the consequence of NATO being "Bad, and inviting disaster" since it been founded and especially since 1991.
All works for me, just checked, but nvm
This isn't "horrible cycle of retribution", this is ongoing imperialism and specifically USA efforts to maintain their global hegemony in the capitalist system - an infinite growth in finite planet. And even the hot part of that war wasn't started by Russia, it was started by Ukraine attacking Donbas in 2014, Russian intervened in that in 2022.
I'll fully admit that I hadn't read the entire thing or did due diligence on the sources prior to my comment. That's a mistake I just did, and I will not be removing my previous comment, but striking it out with an added a correction as an abject lesson & to walk back the clearly erroneously statement. This is a bad habit of mine when I see vitriol online, particularly when it has a flavor of Russian state Media talking points.
~~Thank you for pointing me to this guy's blog. That is very promising to me, someone who likes to be informed by people who do their due diligence.~~ (Hold up one more time! Here is a article that I found that refutes Seymour Hersh's assertions. Also, we only have a single anonymous source of S. Hersh's claims. https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/blowing-holes-in-seymour-hershs-pipe) I don't like the idea that the US did this on Ukraine's behalf, but that doesn't make me think that Russia is the good guys, actually. The number of things that Ukraine and the United States would have to do to outweigh the atrocities that Russia has perpetrated, especially in starting this war for reuniting 'Greater Russia.' Not for standing against Capitalism, which is alive and well in the de facto fascist-oligarchy that is the modern Russian state.
Russia horribly mischaracterized a political pressure cooker, and made it tremendously worse by invading. You are repeating that purposeful propaganda in this moment. Protecting 'ethnic russians' was never the goal.
I suppose next you'll tell me that the Crimean peninsula vote to join Russia was above board?
Even the comments in this article you linked are criticising it pretty hard. Again, this is the guy who was consistently correct in decades, and the Nordstream issue is hottest potato since "Cuban" missile crisis, a literal attack on ally by USA and part of escalation which might as well lead to WW3. Of course a lot of people and institutions are gonna try to deflect it really hard.
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/us_atrocities.html
Yawn, cut and slice and gotcha moment.
We really don't have anything to talk about.
I can only urge you to diversify your news intake with non-social media sources, as social media is corrosive to media literacy.
Additionally here's this article that pointedly refutes many of the main claims of Seymour Hersh's article.
https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/blowing-holes-in-seymour-hershs-pipe
Also there's only one anonymous source on Seymour Hersh's article.
It's plausible that the USA had a part in it, but hardly conclusive.
Slamming someone for parroting imperialist media and then citing Washington post as a source is peak lol. I get it Ukraine and NATO are bad but how is supporting the equally corrupt, equally capitalist Russia in any way better?
Even your own imperialist media break the narrative occasionally. We use them when they do, to try to make liberals think for a second, though the liberal taming is usually way too strong.
Imperialism, that's why.
I’m learning that “speculation echo chamber” is exactly what this instance is. Although “Russian propaganda repeater” might be more accurate as they don’t invent these narratives on their own.
In order of my google search's results.
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4043221-ukraine-kakhovka-dam-collapse-theories/
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-says-russia-admits-blowing-up-nova-kakhovka-dam-call-intercepted/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/16/world/europe/ukraine-kakhovka-dam-collapse.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65818705
Most of these articles admit that it is kind of impossible to know for sure in the middle of a warzone. It's as likely that it collapsed due to lack of proper maintenance in the middle of a war.
What's your source?
I think you replied to the wrong guy
Oh yah hah.