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important rulepost
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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Can we have something like tankiejerk here? I seriously liked browsing that sub after a bad day with the red fashs.
that sub often tended towards outright anti-leftism
Okay Stalin's Moustache,
Listen there's more kinds of people than liberals tankies, and fascists.
There are also anarchist who can critizes these three groups ( and others) with out being within them.
I have no problem with ML and other comrades of various flavors but if your going to be really Into to stalin your not going to be working with me.
You should read about the Spanish civil war.
Sure. There are plenty of people who are anarchists, who are people I would not work with. Like armchair anarchists.
And the word "tankie" does get used by armchair anarchists A lot often inappropriatly.
But still tankie is a valid crique of Red fascism.
And if you are a person who believes In communism, and can see it's benefits but are unable to see it's faults your probably a tankie.
Please remember on multiple instances The Soviets turned their back on anarchists. Like in the Spanish civil war.
USSR refused to openly support Spanish anarchist during the Spanish civil war.
While they did help fund the Spanish republicans and sell the some arms during the war. They would not come out openly to support the left wing government.
They basically allowed the fascist nationalist Franco, supported by fascist German mercenaries, to overthrow a legally elected left wing government. Simply because the soviets knew they would benefit from not intervening in the conflict in the long run.
This is the main critique of communism from an anarchist prospective:
State communism will generally side with fascists because they have similar structure. they are both hierarchical. And will trend in the same direction. The same can be said for capitalism.
Power will always trend into the hands of the people who operate the organization and in heirarchical systems, power will always trend up to fewer and fewer people.
Well I am not one of those people. And I'm not willing or able to defend their bs.
I call people tankies when they support communism without being able to critize it's faults.
Do you deny that there is a long history of Communists not supporting anarchists in their time of need?
To tankies fascist means opposing whatever flavor of authoritarian "communism" they prefer regardless of the reasons or context. This conveniently allows any number of pogroms, mass slaughters or engineered famines to be reframed as anti-fascist action, rather than a brutal expression of state power at the expense of the working class.
Then what would you have me call people who make excuses for invasion, oppression, and genocide just because it was committed by the Russian or Chinese government instead of a western one?
"tankies" criticize the Soviet union, you know? They also criticize the ebil See See Pee but apparently there's no room for nuance
What's your definition of "tankie"? If you're willing to call out Putin's homophobic journalist murdering authoritarian bullshit and the Chinese government's massacring of protesters and genociding of ethnic minorities you're not a tankie imo, you're just a communist.
No, it wasn't fine, that's kinda the point.. It isn't fine when the west does it, it's not fine when others do it too..
It's pretty typical tankie behavior that we're seeing.
When you say it's bad that Stalin implemented genocidal policies such as against the Krim Tartars, Kalmykks and other ethnic groups, they come back with wHaT aBoUt aMeRiCa.
They know that both things can be bad, but they have similar incentives to right-fascists. That is to say they're liars.
Yeah I don't care if they want to call it genocide or not, I honestly don't.. And I don't care for calling them fascists either, it's just childish drama stuff to me.. Just don't twist other people's words and pretend that a certain country or person is perfect..
Hey, that's kinda fucked, since genocide is one of the worst things that can happen and should be condemned in the strongest possible terms.
Nothing Childish about condemning genocidal states like China.
Right but can we maybe not getting hung up on specific words and definitions? I really don't want endless fights over what to label stuff, I would rather see discussions about whether or not China should be doing what they do..
It's a lot easier to dismiss and deflect a hard to define and relatively flexible word such as genocide, but it's a lot harder to actually defend China's actions..
Notice how amnesty international never mentiond the word "genocide"? Instead, they stick to what they can prove without a doubt: Chinas mass internment, mass survilance, etc.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/06/china-draconian-repression-of-muslims-in-xinjiang-amounts-to-crimes-against-humanity/
Don't get me wrong, Chinas actions are horrible. The label genocide is probably fair. But I hate when appologists are able to dodge an uncomfortable discussion because the discussion gets stuck at arguing whether we should call it "crimes against humanity", "systemic repression of a people" or "genocide"..
I'm confused on your point.
well some people who are called "tankies" do. some of them are just rabid bhreznevites
What year do you think it is?
2023, where the maoist New People's Army is a stronghold for human rights & dignity for the Filipino people, engaged in open war against the truly authoritarian & cruel, Imperialist backed Phillipine Republic
what with all the anti-communist fascists and all
I really hate how ya'll deliberately conflate tankies and all socialism/communism, and then conflate anyone being opposed to those concepts as inherently being a fascist.
Tankies use "Liberal" just as the right does. Funny, that.
um, what's a tankie?
well is there any actually existing socialist country that you would support?
is there any actually existing socialist country that is actually socialist?
yes, cuba is pretty uncontroversialy a socialist country
The Cuban working class does not self-administer the economy. Although Cuba is as close so a success as Marxism can get, Fidel's policies of homophobic persecution - regardless of the fact that he regretted them - is proof positive of why authoritarian policies go wrong. Why no single person should have that level of power.
Because in spite of Castro's evident good intentions, and the otherwise high level of success that Cuba has achieved, those atrocities still happened. And because of Authoritarian policies, no-one within Cuba could opposite it while it went on without facing persecution.
i’d never have seen it coming! /s
Nah, I joined their Discord for a bit and everyone there was a leftist.
didn't they have a problem with people doing alt-right dogwhistles about anti-white racism recently? and it got so bad that they had to make a mod announcement telling people to stop doing it and all of the users started trying to explain to the mods how it definitely wasn't a right wing dogwhistle