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this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2024
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I absolutely understand the sentiment of that engineer, but I also understand why they were fired. Maybe they wanted to get fired to make their point, but if they didn't, yelling at an executive during a meeting is always a good way to get yourself fired no matter what that executive is saying.
So while I don't want anyone building such technology either, I hope that person knew the consequences they were facing.
Getting fired is what makes this a story worth writing about. It was intentional.
If they achieved their goal, fine. I am glad they spoke out.
I find genocide to be worse than "breaking corporate code of conduct".
Okay? But that doesn't mean they didn't do something that would have gotten them fired in any company.
Usually engineers, while not always the most socially in tune people, aren’t total dumbasses. He also said (very publicly) that he refuses to do the work they are telling him to do so he’s explicitly telling them to fire him.
I've known a lot of engineers and only known two who weren't total dumbasses. Are you sure about your assertion?
... Says the random internet keyboard warrior using technology and infrastructure thought-up, designed, and built by thousands or even millions of engineers over hundreds of years.
I have exactly 1 trick to get away with letting out your righteous anger at executives: become such a visible figure in collective action that there is no way the company could ever fire you without it being illegal retaliation. The trick is to become that visible while having plausible deniability about organizing
You don't engage in that kind of direct action without being fully aware of the consequences. An engineer at Google is not that idiotic
I would hope not, but you never know.
I definitely would not go that far. https://futurism.com/blake-lemoine-google-interview
Well, first of all, one doofus doesn't mean they are all doofus. Secondly, that person is an ethicist, not an engineer, even though Futurism calls him both, they are distinct and this guy was always making it seem like he was more than he was. Thirdly, smart people can do idiotic things, but that didn't make them idiotic, maybe if they are habitually doing idiotic things, then sure then they are idiotic, but one idiotic thing does not make an idiot, just like I've misspelling does not make someone not fluent.
Even if this one ethicist was an engineer, that doesn't mean all engineers are idiotic, that my friend would be idiotic to assert such a thing. I contend that, by and large, engineers are not idiotic. Does that mean they're aren't idiots? No, don't be silly.
Finally, I don't think that this was idiotic, so...
They were probably trying to get the other engineers to follow their lead. It doesn't seem like that happened.
"I am Spartacus!"
Everyone else: "Yeah, he's Spartacus."
🤣🤣🤣🤣 good one
Weird assumption to make based on nothing.
If that was their plan, they really should have found out who was with them before doing it.
I bet if they yelled something less controversial like "We want more money!" wouldn't have ended in firing. Perhaps in disciplining instead.
I doubt it. Engineers don't get to yell at executives at meetings.
Please don't disturb the overlords while they distribute kool-aid and tell you how good the kool-aid is good for you.
Do you think you could get away with something like that at your job?
Could I get away? It's a gamble I guess. But I've raised my voice at meetings more than once in my life and never lost my job over it.
To be fair, I've never worked in a big company like google, so they can replace you yesterday.
But if you are at that point, you are ready to lose/switch jobs.
In the US - no. In some European countries, totally. The fact I can work without being worried that I'm going to get fired because I've upset some MBA is great for my mental health.
I find it hard to believe that, even in Europe, standing up in the middle of a presentation and accusing your boss of being complicit in genocide, even if it's true, would not be a fireable offense. Otherwise there would be a lot of yelling matches.
You can get fired, but not "on the spot" and at worst, the employer has to pay your next month's paycheck. That stands even if you were fired with good cause.
So here's what would have happened, were this a Dutch company. Employee does the thing, employer says that they should leave, and they offer 1-2 months of a severance so the employee resigns on their own volition and the company avoids going to court. If the employee has more than 2 braincells, he gets a lawyer (there are good pro bono lawyers who work for free if you're not well paid enough to get one). Lawyer advises asking for 6-8 months.
Company has two choices:
Okay? No one said anything about what he gets for being fired. Only that it makes sense that he was fired.
I guess the difference is that instead of being fired, you most likely get to leave on your own terms that you dictate largely. What I mean is you don't get fired, you resign, and can refer to the incident as you have resigned. If you don't want to resign, you can most likely stay in the fucked up work relationship.
I guess the main difference is not what you get, but that Google would have to argue in court that it is fine to fire the guy. And the court case comes before the firing, so if it lasts 10 years like all those cases you hear about, the guy keeps being employed.
I actually don't understand their sentiment.
This isn't the only surveillance Google is enabling. You could MAYBE argue genocide but... let's just say it isn't just facebook that supports brutal regimes.
I've worked for.... questionable companies in the past. I still argue that you more or less can't do Research without getting blood on your hands because... blood money spends well and experiments/development without a defined product is expensive.
But... unless you are a complete moron, you understand that. Don't get me wrong, there are a LOT of graduate students out there who never question WHY there are government grants and why their advisor is talking to Major Johnson and so forth (Val Kilmer's Real Genius is probably the most accurate grad school movie ever made...). But you eventually figure it out. ESPECIALLY if you are working for a company and have to have a defined/target product. I know Google/Alphabet is notorious for the cutthroat/backstabbing among employees but you aren't going to be isolated as to why you are working on a graph search algorithm or how to conceal a camera in a device.
So I don't know if this engineer was just ridiculously ignorant or if they were hoping to "go viral" or what. But you don't wake up one day and realize you are the baddies. You more or less realize that your first day of work and spend time deciding if that will lead to alcoholism or activism.