this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2024
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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (17 children)

The problem is the way the system is rigged.

Kroger is a publicly traded company, their stock price right now is 46.71 / share.

You can see their most recent earnings report here:

https://ir.kroger.com/news/news-details/2023/Kroger-Reports-Third-Quarter-2023-Results-and-Updates-Guidance/default.aspx

Operating Profit of $912 million; EPS of $0.88

Now then... for NEXT quarter... It doesn't matter if they are profitable or not. Because they are publicly traded, they are going to be expected to make MORE profit than they did this quarter.

Let's say next quarter they "only" have $890 million in profit... Most of us would KILL to be that profitable.

The stock market analysts will look at it and go "yeah, but you 'lost' $22 million from last quarter..." and they will punish Kroger for failing.

Even worse...

Let's say Kroger raised their prices and pulls in a profit of $915 million next quarter... they can STILL get punished if the market goes "Yeah, but our analysts expected you to bring in $921 million in profit."

Failing to meet or beat "expectations" is just as bad as raking in less of a profit than last time.

So prices go up, because they have to make more money than the same time last month, last quarter, last year.

[–] GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I always imagine the stockholder that trades off quarterly expectations to be someone sitting in an overly large home getting all bent out of shape because someone else's labor didn't make them enough money RIGHT NOW!

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It isn't one guy adjusting one portfolio relative to a single quarterly change in profits. You have to look at this as thousands of hedge funds with tens of billions of dollars in investor cash comparing Kroger to Safeway and Walmart and saying "I want 8% exposure to the cyclical consumer retail sector and I have $X-Billion to invest, how much of that do I want to distribute across these three companies?" And then if Kroger underperforms Safeway and Walmart, my algorithm tells me to sell Kroger stock and use the proceeds to buy up Safeway/Walmart.

This gives Safeway/Walmart a lower rate of effective borrowing, which means they can build new stores in territory adjacent to Kroger locations or expand into territory none of them dominate. It sets off a cascading effect in which Safeway gets to grow while Krogers treads water. Eventually, Safeway can start installing stores directly adjacent to Kroger and selling everything in this one storefront at 10% under cost-of-purchase until Krogers goes out of business from cut-rate competition. Then Safeway jacks up their prices at this one store and returns to rising profitability.

That's the market mechanism in effect. Low lending rates mean you can drive your competitors out of business. So everyone needs to run a competitive profit margin in order to avoid getting swallowed up by their neighbors. And the folks who decide if you're "competitive" are a handful of mega-investment banks that decide how much of your stock they're going to buy.

[–] GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

And the folks who decide if you’re “competitive” are a handful of mega-investment banks that decide how much of your stock they’re going to buy.

This one statement says a lot about the American economy

And thank you for the explanation

[–] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

they can STILL get punished if the market goes "Yeah, but our analysts expected you to bring in $921 million in profit."

This happened to the company I'm in. We had record profits, were positive for the first time in years, and beat our goals by a decent bit. Stock prices tanked anyway because "the best we've ever done" wasn't good enough for the shareholders.

[–] _number8_@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

abolish the stock market. put these hogs on a fucking island with no natural resources but sand and salt water. set up a camera and let us watch.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 year ago

The problem is that a bunch of the hogs are our retirement funds.

We need to remove the middle-men from the equation and institute guaranteed basic income before we can change it.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It did serve a purpose. But like all money and corporation things we've let the wealthy run away with it.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It's interesting how recent the stock market really is:

https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/history-of-the-stock-market/

"The first modern stock trading market was created in Amsterdam when the Dutch East India Company was the first publicly traded company. To raise capital, the company decided to sell stock and pay dividends of the shares to investors. Then in 1611, the Amsterdam stock exchange was created. For many years, the only trading activity on the exchange was trading shares of the Dutch East India Company.

At this point, other countries began creating similar companies, and buying shares of stock was popular for investors. The excitement blinded most investors and they bought into any company that began available without investigating the organization. This resulted in financial instability, and eventually in 1720, investors became fearful and tried to sell all their shares in a hurry. No one was buying however, so the market crashed.

. . .

Although the first stock market began in Amsterdam in 1611, the U.S. didn’t get into the stock market game until the late 1700s. It was then that a small group of merchants made the Buttonwood Tree Agreement. This group of men met daily to buy and sell stocks and bonds, which became the origin of what we know today as the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE).

Although the Buttonwood traders are considered the inventors of the largest stock exchange in America, the Philadelphia Stock Exchange was America’s first stock exchange. Founded in 1790, the Philadelphia Stock Exchange had a profound impact on the city’s place in the global economy, including helping spur the development of the U.S.’s financial sectors and its expansion west."

[–] normalexit@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I don't know if my highschool education is failing me, but the US declared independence in 1776, so I feel like the US not having a stock market until the late 1700s makes a lot of sense.

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[–] jettrscga@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The "expectations" aspect became especially apparent when Tesla was valued higher than the next top 10 auto manufacturers combined.

It was literally that Tesla is new shit that we can bet on. It has nothing to do with Tesla's actual value.

It's also the issue with buying stocks based on a company's performance. If you do that, you're already too late because investors with more information have already bought based on a prediction of that performance (or insider information).

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[–] tinkeringidiot@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

And disregarding those expectations can carry personal liability for anyone in a position to do it, because the executive leadership of the company has a legal responsibility to act in the interest of the shareholders above all else.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Government grocery stores would solve this and food deserts...

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What are you, some kind of Communist? You can't have government run retail outlets. It would be inefficient! It would prevent innovation! It would desaturate the market! It would cause millions of farmers to go bankrupt overnight! The employees would all be rapists and arsonists and unionists, while the managers would be bloated government bureaucrats who only care about their cushy government jobs!

You would cause famine and poverty across the entire nation. It would be the worst thing to happen to the country since the Postal Service!!!

[–] Redecco@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like I've heard a lot of bias placed against the idea of government in the US as something that's the source of problems in the country, where private organizations are usually seen as being the solution and not at all related somehow. It doesn't always strike the mark when criticizing private organizations... people will even jump to the defense of billionaires. Agree that mentioning government grocery stores would result in something like "what you want the government to run groceries? they can't do anything right, why would you want them to do that?"

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean when you have one of two major political parties who are dedicated to making the government suck, it's not surprising that the government sometimes sucks. And when you have a lot of low information (or bad information) people, it's not surprising that they don't connect those dots.

Republicans are an existential problem for the United States.

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[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But then the government would have to remedy the surplus of food by implementing food banks. Then markets would crash because everyone would go to food banks instead of grocery stores. Then money would be worthless and the government would have to step in and offer some type of work for rations program. And if that’s successful, it would spread to other industries for furniture and other goods. Is Biden going full Kropotkin?

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 year ago

In Canada, people think this is an exclusively Canadian issue happening specifically only at Loblaws and their affiliates.

ITS AN INDUSTRY WIDE SCAM.

[–] asteriskeverything@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

accusing the stores of reaping excess profits and ripping off shoppers.

Thanks now can you do this with all the other companies? All.

[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also maybe do something with some teeth, not just empty words. Other consumer products are also outrageous but you literally die without food so this is something nobody can just do without.

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[–] BetaBlake@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Publix absolutely has fleeced it's customers since the pandemic.

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Name one company that didn't fleece it's customers.

[–] Fox@pawb.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Aldi is a pretty good company, but it had a hard time keeping things in stock

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[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Did he say anything about the Albertsons+Kroger merger that’s in the works? ‘Cause that’s not going to make things better and they are acting like it’s a done deal.

[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Through the magic of capitalism, removing competition will drive prices down! No further questions

[–] IDontHavePantsOn@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Corner the market then lower your prices. It's basic economics!

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Microeconomics: "Hey so we should like have a functioning econ-"

Macroecnomics: "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha no"

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

This is funny in many ways.

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[–] snownyte@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (24 children)

Eggs are again steadily rising in price. Wal-Mart "great value" prices isn't all that 'great' to begin with, with most of it's products.

But can we stop calling things inflation? Call it for what it really has been - G-R-E-E-D

[–] yumpsuit@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Eggs are again steadily rising in price.

This one can still be pinned on poultry farming greed, but it’s not a pure price gouge.

Avian flu devastates California’s poultry farms as new wave of outbreaks roils industry

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[–] csm10495@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Old man wags finger

[–] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Palm the saffron and pecorino romano

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I already palm my peckerino pretty much daily.

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