If Ukraine wants this, it's their choice, and I absolutely understand why they would want to end the war.
But Russia should not think we can return to business as usual after this.
It's shameful IMO that EU hasn't helped Ukraine more.
But Russia should not think we can return to business as usual after this.
Oh we will, we will for sure, as soon as the bombs stop falling it's time to build more cheap gas pipelines.
With Trump incoming there's a pretty finite clock on how long Ukraine has to cease hostilities. Otherwise it's likely to face united opposition.
When they lost Chrimea, it was a total loss and a further war was inevitable. If you give up more territory for NATO membership, you can rest assured you won't go to war again.
The Winter War, which is generally considered a Soviet failure, still ended with Finland ceding a significant amount of territory to the Soviet Union. I wonder how similar Ukrainian leaders think their situation is to Finland's...
Zelenskyy also expressed readiness to work with Donald Trump, despite reports that Trump’s plans may involve Ukraine ceding occupied land.
There's no other reasonable course of action available to Zelensky. With that said, Trump might be volatile enough to actually support Ukraine's NATO bid. I don't think a rational US President would.
left to his own feces, trump will abandon ukraine in a heartbeat and leave it for putin. the moronic voters in the u.s. chose that path.
that's why ukraine is saying they're willing to 'work with' trump, there's no other choice.
Well, this war is amazing business for the US military-industrial complex, so we'll see if they still have more sway in shaping US foreign policy than Putin: https://www.vox.com/world/2022/12/16/23507640/dc-party-invite-military-contractors-money-ukraine-russia-war-us
So far, evidence suggests that the MIC was a paper tiger, at least compared to Russian Intelligence. It's, frankly, embarrassing.
He's a wildcard but Trump has pretty consistently opposed NATO including wanting the US to withdraw from it. Which makes sense as it would benefit Putin.
In his credit; he did criticise the other members for not spending enough on defence and that turned out to be a valid criticism and now everyone has increased that spending.
The funny thing is that the American military spending is not a gift to the world, it is the price to have US military bases around the world.
Me, as a non American, I am happy that there is less power concentrated in the hands of US (and not because US but because concentration of powers is always wrong)
But does this make sense for US? 🤷♂️
It will be interesting to see what happens here. Hope for the best, expect the worst.
That seems totally reasonable to me.
"We'll stop fighting, and let you have what you stole. But if you attack again at all, it'll be a very different kind of fight for you. In the long run, you'll probably have lost more than you gained by pulling this bullshit."
No it's not actually reasonable, Russia doesn't deserve to get anything.
But I can perfectly understand why Ukraine doesn't want this war, they never wanted it. It was 100% Russian aggression, and that shouldn't be rewarded, but sometimes reality isn't fair, and you have to make unpleasant compromises.
You are not wrong, but joining NATO is the only way to ensure Russia won't just declare war again. And we have to be realistic here: Ukraine has surpassed all expectations here already. We can't expect this miracle to go on indefinitely.
joining NATO is the only way to ensure Russia won’t just declare war again.
Absolutely.
It's not about deserving. Nobody deserves anything.
And you perfectly explained why it is reasonable.
Ukraine deserve their territory back, I don't see how anything I wrote says this is reasonable to Ukraine in any way.
Ukraine doesn't want this war, they never wanted it. [...] but sometimes reality isn't fair, and you have to make unpleasant compromises.
None of those translate to anything being reasonable. I think you mean rational. As reasonable also means fair.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reasonable
For Ukraine to give in is maybe a necessity, that doesn't make it reasonable, because Russia is extremely unreasonable, which is why a reasonable compromise isn't possible.
Reason ... Able. Something that is able to be reasoned. It has nothing to do fair.
Honestly. Deserving and Fair, are privileged naive ideas to bring to war.
Some ceasefire, with frozen conflict - similar to Korea. No real solution or peace treaty. That's why the landmines.
What are you proposing?
Not me, Zelensky.
Something akin to my marriage.
A grueling daily standoff, mired with silent and tense interactions in the hallway, like ships passing in the night? A lonely, cold existence punctuated by depression medication dampened flaccid shower masturbation? A dreary, lifeless union blessed by a loud shop vac in the basement, so the kids can't hear you crying? You can't recall the last time you wore a seatbelt or drove sober, because she's always smiling at her damn phone, and always leaves the room to answer a call. You paid for the fucking thing, and her passcode isn't even the same as it used to be. Nothing is anymore. Maybe today's the day someone won't stop at a red light, or maybe you'll finally try to grab a cop's gun. But you won't. The drudgery shambles on.
Jesus christ. Uh, are you OK buddy?
I'm fine, thanks for the concern. My previous comment was inspired by the song Shop Vac by Jonathan Coulton, I've never been married. I figure I'd have to sell off my sex dolls first, but they were stupid expensive, and you'd surprised how quickly they lose value when you take them out of the box. I figure they're a bird in hand in either case.
Sheer poetry.
I think I'm going for that gun next time.
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