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412

Microsoft employees removed from town hall for protesting AI contracts with Israeli military (www.middleeastmonitor.com)

submitted 1 week ago by geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.ml

36 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Five Microsoft employees were removed during a company town hall meeting after staging a protest against the company’s contracts supplying Artificial Intelligence (AI) and cloud computing services to the Israeli occupation military.

The demonstration took place on Monday, following an Associated Press (AP) investigation that revealed Microsoft and OpenAI’s advanced AI models had been utilised by the Israeli occupation military to select bombing targets in recent attacks against Gaza and Lebanon.

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[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 76 points 1 week ago (3 children)

No matter where you are in an organization, unless you're csuite, you're nothing. Always remember that. You do not get a say, your opinion is tolerated at best. I've known people at MSFT for decades and they think they're opinion matters. It doesn't. Tomorrow some exec will come in and stomp on you. Work to live, don't live to work. Them saying this is good, but I like to remind people that they won't care. Money talks.

[–] timewarp@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Best advice ever!

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

as long as people are applying to MS position jobs, the employees protesting means very little. and you see what companies did to the job review sites, sued them into being astroturfed.

[+] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml -44 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Imagine thinking you have any moral high ground but work for a massive corporation.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 40 points 1 week ago

[–] newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Plenty of moral people work for immoral companies all the time. This isn't some big gatcha as much as it is a complete dismissal akin to the way a C-Suite exec might completely dismiss your opinion.

[–] ObsidianZed@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago

Yeah fuck the 2+ million people working for big tech. They don't deserve work unless it's for a genuine, good-hearted startup.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

People have families to feed. How long are you willing to go without income before you consider Amazon or Meta? How long do your morals hold up before you're facing eviction. It's super easy to hold to them and judge others when you're fully employed, but buddy I gotta tell you, I've been laid off twice in 3 years, and I stared down losing my house or taking a job at big tech. I was lucky that a smaller company came in last second and I landed there, but I hold zero ill will to those who work there.

Most of them have no assumptions to what they do, but individuals need to feed their families, to provide a roof over their heads, they have kids who need college paid for or medical insurance. You judge them, but I question what you would do in the same position. If you were facing losing your home and you had Amazon sitting there offering more money then you've ever made - how long would you hold onto those morals?

I don't even expect an answer. I don't expect it to be truthful.

[+] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml -10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is the fact that you’re so defensive over my comment not an indication for you to do a little introspection?

You can’t claim the moral high ground if you’re enabling the very thing you’re complaining about.

I don’t comprehend why people find this controversial other than that they may be uncomfortable with their own choices and dislike when some random on the internet has pointed it out to them.

If I worked for Microsoft I wouldn’t wear a shirt complaining about my work being used to kill kids because I would have the presence of mind to realise that I would be a hypocrite if I did that.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It doesn't seem controversial at all. People seem to pretty consistently say your take sucks and that you're wrong.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And you are completely morally clean with everything you do in life and interact with? Stones, glass houses, etc.

[–] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I took the hit to my overall earnings by not working for a corporation that kills the planet/tramples on workers rights/engages in war crimes.

Have you?

[–] ElcaineVolta@kbin.melroy.org 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

do you eat meat, dairy, and eggs? do you drive to work?

[–] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, yes, yes, no.

If your point is that I engage in immoral practices; of course I do.

That wasn’t my initial argument though.

As I have said in another comment, if I worked for Microsoft I wouldn’t wear a shirt complaining about my work killing people in a foreign country because I would realise that makes me a hypocrite.

In the same way I wouldn’t be vegan, work for an abattoir and complain to my CEO that killing animals is wrong.

[–] ElcaineVolta@kbin.melroy.org 11 points 1 week ago

so what's the argument? I've been vegan since Obama was president and bike or transit to my job at a public institution; are you just not on my level? personally I'm relieved some of the people stuck at microsoft actually give a shit, probably not enough of them, but it's still a good thing. I'm not in the tech sector but I can appreciate the fact that change has to come from individuals who are toiling within our current system - and that most definitely includes people willing to speak up against the awful shit the c-suite is responsible for choosing to engage in.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 3 points 1 week ago

I'm not just talking about employment. At some point, we all engage in something that leads to something immoral and unethical.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 43 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Microsoft: has town hall

Also Microsoft: "approved opinions only!"

[–] Tyfud@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

At most large companies, this isn't too uncommon. Town Halls are not the same as town halls elected officials might stage.

[–] stormeuh@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think that should be expected given the governing structure of almost all large companies, because they're dictatorships. Employees have no say over who's in leadership, and can be fired more or less without recourse. You wouldn't expect a town hall in Russia or North Korea to allow dissent, would you?

[–] Tyfud@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

100% correct.

When you work for a corporation, you are working for a dictatorship. You have the power to choose which dictatorship you'd like to work for, but you only have whatever power they let you have.

Power that can be snatched away any time of their choosing.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Company Town Halls are "we listen to you" theatre.

Modern large companies behave towards their employees the same way they behave towards their customers: they use marketing to influence them into doing what's best for the C-suite, the Board and (usually) shareholders.

In Tech specifically this kind of crap has been common since the 90s even in Startups (as part of the "pay them with hope, sense of belonging and pride rather than money" technique), though the big Tech companies are the most extreme in this kind of stuff.

[–] crazyminner@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Only five people at Microsoft gave enough fucks to protest. It should have been all of them. They should strike for fucks sakes.

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

In my experience the majority of tech workers don’t give a fuck about the moral implications of their work. They often justify it with “if I don’t do it someone else will.”

Source: am tech worker, see it all the time

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago

"Once the rockets go up, who care where they come down"

[–] GeekySalsa@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Many Microsoft employees are on Visas. So they can't really risk losing their jobs as they'd risk deportation. I suspect this is one of the reasons why big tech companies hire so many workers on visas tbh.

[–] But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

If you worked on creating Ai sorry but you must have known it would eventually be used for evil

[–] RedSnt@feddit.dk 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Exactly: "Let's make something that removes the human decision making from the process.. Huh, it's evil?!"

[–] vintageballs@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

There is no causality there.

[–] vintageballs@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you worked on smithing knives sorry but you must have known eventually someone would get stabbed

If you worked on building cars sorry but you must have known eventually someone would drive one into a protest

If you worked on producing painkillers sorry but you must have known eventually someone would trigger an opioid epidemic for their personal gain

....

A tool is a tool. Regulation and responsibility determine the associated dangers.

[–] But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Come on now, Ai is on a whole other level than throat things. It would be like me making a robot that stabs things then crying cause someone used it to stab people

[–] nocteb@feddit.org 7 points 1 week ago

Isn't that nice! Having a moral dilemma to decide which hospital to bomb? Just let AI decide! It's not your fault anymore just press the button!

[–] RalziTech@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

I don't blame them for protesting. Yeah, admittedly AI is cool n' all, but you don't need to encourage an entire military to get in on it.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Dictators gonna dictate.