Free and Open Source Software

I don’t like Apple because of their anti-user, anti-third party policies, but their quality, interoperability, and privacy make me pick it over google for my phone, tablet, and watch.

Granted, it I could replace those things with FOSS alternatives that worked as well as Apple products do, I would in a heart beat.

I'll preface this by saying don't beat yourself up for using Apple. You can be critical and still use their products. I am typing this on Windows 10 and have a macbook for work. Microsoft and Google are far from perfect in this space. As the saying goes, "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" lol.

I think you should use open source software but I don't think you should force yourself if good alternatives don't exist for your use case. A good example is Photoshop. The open source version is GIMP. I use GIMP mostly because I don't want to pay for Photoshop but from what I've heard from people who edit pictures professionally it is not even a competition.

Compare that to Audacity, my understanding is more people in the audio world use it. Or VLC Media player! It can basically open any format of video, it's crazy!

If you're curious to try a linux desktop operating system the choices will become overwhelming like you said. Ubuntu is the go-to suggestion usually. There are ways to create "live USBs" to run it from the USB like a test drive (but it may be slow). I've decided my next computer I build I'm going to run Linux primarily but I haven't got around to building it.

So Apple is obviously an evil, profit seeking company that exploits users and developers, maintains a monopoly and actively hurts efforts towards openness.

But bro, what else am I gonna use? Do you think Google is any better.

And, as you already noticed, most open source alternatives suuuck. (Man, I'm gonna regret saying this on an FOSS community) With some research you'll get a usable desktop OS for some use-cases, but phones such as Fairphone and Purism are another story entirely. Don't even think about watches or tablets. I love the Purism Firefox demo, where they enthusiastically say: "With Settings unusable in Portrait, it's time to switch to landscape mode".

The "you think ... yet you buy ..." argument is pointless, because it ignores the realities of monopolies and globalism. I'm sure his T-Shirt that day wasn't made from ethically sourced cotton or whatever.

I like your scientific way of looking at things i am a software developer and i know few people who are using apple laptops and phones and they are defending everything that company make or say or do even it is a very anti-consumer decition like their implementation of right to repair so i am glad that not every apple user is also in their cult

I spent many years trying to be as FOSS as I could. I tried many different Linux distros, hunted for open source operating systems for my phone (at the time, none did even the basic things I needed it to do) until one day I decided I was sick to death of having to spend hours researching and trying multiple arcane cli commands to get even simple things to work (like WiFi). I realised that I was wasting an enormous amount of time being all-things-open-source.

My next purchase as a macbook as it was based on a *nix and I've come to realise that while Apple is a walled garden and in some ways is 'evil', it's less evil than Google is now, or Microsoft was back in the day.

I also like the way that the various Apple devices work really well together. But I hate the fact that it's harder to hack things to be the way that I want. Don't get me wrong, I still love open source software, but I have too few years left to waste them on modifying config.org files, or whatever they do now, so I'm much more selective with what I use. I tend to use FOSS applications on MacOS where the software works well enough.

Not trying to bash FOSS, just my 2 cents.

Personally, I strongly agree with your colleague. If you truly believe openness is a good thing (and it sounds like you do), Apple's ethos is just about the direct antithesis. They only collaborate with the wider tech industry when they absolutely have to. Otherwise, they are greedy, secretive, controlling, and vindictive - oftentimes openly hostile to anyone who dares choose a non-Apple device/platform.

The best example of this is the iMessage "green bubbles" phenomenon. Some background: Apple's default texting experience is iMessage. This service has a bunch of nice, modern chat features - except they're only available when texting another iPhone. These "better" messages are indicated by blue bubbles. People who don't use iPhones (whether by choice or by necessity) are forced to use the ancient, insecure, feature-poor SMS protocol, reducing the privacy and security of everyone involved (including iPhone users). It's also extremely obvious when this happens, since the chat app will switch to green bubbles.

In places where this service has caught on (such as the US), Apple uses this separation to deliberately make texting non-iPhone users a significantly worse experience. This causes social effects, especially among teenagers, where those who don't use iPhone are bullied and shunned for being a "green bubble". The Wall Street Journal did a great expose into this phenomenon.

Now, to be clear, this is a totally artificial problem - Apple could fix this overnight if they wanted. For years, the wider tech industry has been working on replacing SMS with a much more modern standard called RCS. Every single other party in the mobile industry has moved on. Apple, however, is the lone holdout. They see kids bullying other kids into buying an iPhone as a good thing - more iPhone sales! In fact, Apple openly encouraged that narrative: when a journalist asked the (very reasonable) question of "how can I make texting with my Android-user mom better?", Apple CEO Tim Cook responded with "buy your mom an iPhone."

There's plenty more examples of this antagonistic behavior I could talk about, but this one is the most telling.

Of course, if you do choose to go all in with them, you won't see that side of Apple at all. They are frighteningly good at cultivating their image as the "good guys" among Big Tech, and, honestly, it's not unwarranted. They are good at what they do, and they do take care of their users. Their tech is great.

Ultimately, my take is that if you prefer using Apple's stuff over more open alternatives, don't change what you like! Just remember that they have a dark side. It is good to be aware of the wider tech ecosystem, and to make open technology choices where you can. By being active on the Fediverse, you're already doing your part 😁

Your friend is right. Listen to him, read and understand. Don't feel obligated to necessarily change your habits. If you get the time and desire to make a change, that understanding and knowledge will inform your actions. ☺️

@IronTwo
Apple's ecosystem works well for it's users, but it screws over anyone else not completely consumed in their ecosystem.

I think Apple is as bad as Microsoft or even worse. Their products are not even remotely as good as their fans claim to be either.

I had to use a macbook for work once and it honestly sucked and I really tried to like it even contributed to major user space programs through out my 2 year adventure. It's a bad platform of blind leading the blind.

I 100% agree with your colleague, though I don't agree with his purity test. You're allowed to feel the way you do about medicine and still use whatever products you want. But, yeah, I don't own or use any Apple products, though I would like to own and restore an Apple IIe.

I consider Apple to be one of the most evil corporations out there, but it appears that my interpretation of "evilness" seema to coincide with size a lot.
so maybe i just don't like (stupidly) successfull companies.

Anyway, I think Apple locks people in their very nice walled garden and in that garden uses a lot of public infrastructure (like open source software, but also other open services on the net), and gives comparatively very little back to the community.

and they do it, because they think it propably makes slightly more money.

Which is also the reason I don't trust their privacy promises at all, since they can't prove many of them.

Apple could be an enormous force for good, but to me it feels like they care more about making 0.5% more money to put into their hoard.

Terrible company, I do believe the world would be better if it vanished.

My amateur opinion: Apple makes beautiful and thoughtful devices that are tightly integrated into a system of services that work well. But I don't use them, mostly because of the closed nature of that ecosystem, and also because they are consistently more expensive. Back when you could jailbreak and sideload apps on iPhones, I had a series of iPhones and they were pretty good phones, although iTunes always sucked. While they were around, iPods were clever. But I preferred to buy music from a variety of places, I wanted to install apps that I wanted and not what were available on the App Store, and I really didn't like the user-hostile decisions Apple made to sell more hardware. Getting rid of the headphone jack was one of the worst decisions to me, as was Apple's dogmatic refusal to use USB-C until European regulators recently forced the change.

I haven't owned any Apple products since the ipod nano in 2005, and have only used Linux, specifically Ubuntu), since 2008 (then my sophomore year in college) for exactly the reasons your colleague spells out. I try to use open-source software whenever possible. Apple is the most closed-source vendor available to me, so I have no intention of ever using their products. When I was a teenager / early 20s I would espouse the evils of Apple to anyone who was nearby, whether they wanted to listen or not. Now, I cringe at the memory of that behavior and let people live their lives.

I do see why your colleague connected the dots between your two separate arguments, and I do see where they're coming from. The idea of Freedom of Scientific Information and FOSS do have many parallels, but I don't think you need to beat yourself up over using Apple vs more open-sourced software. I don't really think there's anything particularly wrong with Apple devices, and when my current laptop starts to go I might even consider one of their offerings. But my needs are simple enough that Ubuntu has always worked for me. As far as phones, I just like Android better (and more of it is open-sourced).

Apple is just about the worst offender out there in terms of desire to maintain a closed ecosystem.

• They only adopt open hardware standards when forced to by law

• They scrupulously enforce price controls on their resellers, ensuring that you can't usually purchase prior generations at a discount

• They intentionally degrade performance on older generations of devices through malicious software updates to force users to upgrade

• They aggressively combat open source and cross platform integration. E.g., Apple TV can't be cast to a Google device, etc.

Just had a lunch conversation today as well and a colleague's iPhone got stolen. I mentioned how the problem of being able to do everything on the phone makes it a single point of failure (back in the day when I traveled I needed internet cafés to login into my brokerage account to sell off some stock. Now I just do it with my phone.). We discussed a bit more how he was stuck and frustrated as all things are done with the phone now (Uber, 2-factor authentication etc.).

But, it was an iPhone, so Apple allowed him to completely shut down and erase his old phone together with all payment info and all other personal info. And then just enter his Apple ID on his new phone (paid by the insurance) and he was back in the game.

If I had my Fairphone stolen, I'd have to somehow recover some parts of my data from my personal backup and the installation process of any new device would take some time. Also, who knows what the thief could've done with my phone?

So yeah, I'm completely opposed to my device being controlled by a corporation to the point they can lock, erase and move all data (including app data) somewhere else, but I do see the advantages.

Apple is the worst... and they make it really hard to break out of their walled garden once you made the mistake to enter it. But don't throw away everything, just don't give them any additional money and try to somehow escape from that prison over time. But it will be hard as Apple intentionally breaks interoperability with things that are not Apple.

Ethical consumption is nearly impossible to actually achieve which is why the best way to solve corporate bad practices is a healthy dose of regulation and government. It never hurts to, if you can, avoid doing business with certain bad actors if you'd like but often times you're trading one bad actor for another in a different way.

Personally though I'm not a fan of Apple products. They can be well made and their silicon is incredible. Very fast and energy efficient and for a few years it was far ahead of other arm offerings and in terms of efficiency is still ahead of mobile x86 offerings(though the gap isnt that gigantic anymore it does still offer far better single core performance per watt at low levels). Their software manages to be well designed and whether I agree with it or not manages to get certain features in the mainstream.

That said I prefer the more open way of doing things. Like for example take moving files into and out of an iphone. Pre-airdrop you had to use all kinds of syncing software in order to move files out whereas on android I could just plug it in and navigate my files like a usb. Post airdrop, well airdrop only works on apple products as a means of keeping you locked into the ecosystem. I dont think a good chunk of the way they do things is necessarily better, and they rarely do things first, and worst of all when they do it's often a proprietary way that is not compatible with other devices and OS.

I think FOSSS shouldn't be some kind of religion, if you like Apple, great, go for it. However if you truly value privacy (while beeing better than Microsoft, Apple still collects some of your data) and freedom it certainly won't hurt to try out some alternatives. If you like them better it is a win-win situation, if not switch back.

Things you can do if you are interrested in FOSS, that don't necessary need you to change everything:

• Try some software alternatives for programms you are using (LibreOffice instead of Word, Gimp instead of Photoshop etc.) This lets you search for alternatives.
• Spin up a Linux VM and try it, or try to install linux on an old laptop. -And when you do that, look into KDE Connect as it offers connectivity between devices, that even Apple does not offer in some cases.
• If you are truly into it, you can even contribute to FOSS, to make them as good as Apple products.

I don't use Apple products myself, although I do have an old iPad. My main issue with them isn't a moral one though, it's that Apple seem to design their products to work as slickly as possible with their own ecosystem to the detriment of everything else.

If you use an iPhone, an iPad, an Apple Watch and a Mac then you're probably enjoying a great user experience. If you want to use an Apple device with anything else you're probably in for some amount of pain. I'm not against them, but they're not for me.

I do try and use FOSS software where I can, not least Lemmy and Mastodon, but my main devices are a Windows PC along with an Android phone and tablet. Windows is obviously closed source, and while Android itself is open source you can't say the same for all the vital Google stuff on top. I have a plan to get my hands on a high specced Raspberry Pi when they're finally back in stock and use it as my main home desktop for light use. If I had a laptop of my own I'd definitely be running Linux on it too.

I think everyone should absolutely look into FOSS hardware and software, although in reality I doubt most people would care. If anything it's just the "free" part they care about, but there's obviously a huge benefit in software and hardware being free for others to build on, fork and improve. I'd love nothing more than seeing everything work on this principle, but that's sadly not the world we live in.

A concept shared by both of these examples is that of the commons. You believe in an information commons, specifically as it pertains to medicine. A lot of users in the FOSS space believe in a technological commons.

I'm not going to delve too extensively into the political and philosophical definitions around the commons; there's a wealth of economic and political anthropology dissecting the successes of the commons, how they tend to operate, and their potential place in future economies of the world. If you want a very brief primer, David Bollier's Think Like a Commoner is a good start; it's quick, inexpensive, and there's an audiobook if that's your jam.

Ethical consumption is nearly impossible to actually achieve which is why the best way to solve corporate bad practices is a healthy dose of regulation and government. It never hurts to, if you can, avoid doing business with certain bad actors if you'd like but often times you're trading one bad actor for another in a different way.

Personally though I'm not a fan of Apple products. They can be well made and their silicon is incredible. Very fast and energy efficient and for a few years it was far ahead of other arm offerings and in terms of efficiency is still ahead of mobile x86 offerings(though the gap isnt that gigantic anymore it does still offer far better single core performance per watt at low levels). Their software manages to be well designed and whether I agree with it or not manages to get certain features in the mainstream.

That said I prefer the more open way of doing things. Like for example take moving files into and out of an iphone. Pre-airdrop you had to use all kinds of syncing software in order to move files out whereas on android I could just plug it in and navigate my files like a usb. Post airdrop, well airdrop only works on apple products as a means of keeping you locked into the ecosystem. I dont think a good chunk of the way they do things is necessarily better, and they rarely do things first, and worst of all when they do it's often a proprietary way that is not compatible with other devices and OS.

I like to tinker. I don't buy apple products. I get that most people want a device that just works when they pick it up and integrates with the rest of their devices. Apple does this really well.

While I personally agree with your colleague, one must consider one's use case and the amount of time and effort it will take to replicate the things you like about the apple UX and ecosystem and make a judgement call. I have a Windows desktop, a Linux server, an Android phone and tablet and I spend a fair amount of time seeing them up and keeping them talking to one another to share data, but even then I can't get them to share settings simply like do not disturb.

Apple has innovated on the user experience to the point where if I pick up an iphone I can't navigate around it because it relies on a soft touch, "intuitive", gestural interface. And therefore it's easy for me to shun apple products on principle. The real hard work is migrating off the platform you know. And for people that were raised in the apple touch ecosystem, I don't realistically see many of them ever leaving.

I'm a huge open source advocate and developer. I used Linux for many many years, but these days I'm Apple all the way. I'm too old to hack around with everything, I want my commodities to Just Work, so I can focus on the stuff I want to do with it. Also, Apple are the only big company I remotely trust on privacy.

I don't like any of the big tech companies at all, Apple included. I think they all have way too much power. I don't trust the 'cloud' either - you don't truly own your data/media unless you have a local, DRM-free copy.

Apple isn't super popular among the geeks for this exact reason. They make everything proprietary. Like, everything everything. They aren't willing to give up even their charging cables.

Yea they make stuff convenient for people who don't want to think about the tech at all, but you're giving up a huge deal of your freedom. And by extension even of other people, because by using Apple products, you're helping them strengthen their iron grip. See the bubble color debate regarding iMessage. Worse, they turn this into a trend that other companies follow.

Linux can be as complicated or as simple as you want it. Yea if you're a programmer or a nerd, you can use Arch and literally take it apart.

Or you can use Mint or Ubuntu and your experience will be as smooth and straightforward as using MacOS. True, nobody has as interconnected ecosystems as Apple but again.. It's not just money you're paying with.

The analogy of free access to information is indeed apt.

Really jumped in the deep end with your research, huh? :)

I guess a good place to start would be deciding what actually bothers you. Megacorp sucks because of [shitty capitalism, shady labor practices, locking down devices, privacy, insert other complaint]. Weigh those against the benefits you get.

My biggest concern is generally privacy and monetization of my data, but I still use an iPhone because my family wouldn’t get off my case about ease of sharing photos, videos. So I only have the iPhone. Don’t buy anything else from them. I turn off as much tracking and data collection as possible. I only have two outward-facing files in iCloud — my encrypted password keeper so that I can access it both from phones and mobile, and an encrypted file vault that can only be opened if you first get into the password keeper.

FWIW on the FOSS side, I still use Linux. I used to use GrapheneOS on a Pixel 5a that worked otherwise well.

These are probably more related than you think. I believe we were on track to work together in a global Open Science initiative until Bill Gates stepped up to bankroll most of the biggest initiatives under the agreement that the results were proprietary.

Apple historically was the first company to sue for software copyright infringement. As many other have posted in this thread, they haven't gotten better over time.

To get the point since as you've stated your brain is filled.

Here's how I view Apple:

• anti consumer
• anti developer
• anti privacy
• anti right to repair

I'll stop buying apple when I can get a multi-core arm machine that's not made of scrapbin plastic from a traditional PC manufacturer. I have two M1 machines running Asahi Linux and they're excellent computers.

Check out https://www.eff.org/: Electronic Frontier Foundation

You kind of hit on the major tradeoff while thinking through it. That tight product integration (phone, watch, tablet, laptop) is a selling point for a lot of people to buy into closed tech ecosystems. It's easy and it just works. In exchange for those seamless integrations, you kind of lock yourself in to that family of tech products. There's also the fact that the owner of said ecosystem will happily monitor and monetize all your activity on those integrated products. Open source solutions allow you to strip out that corporate telemetry to a greater or lesser extent. You can also achieve some similar levels of product integration, but it does demand a little more effort and technical savvy from the end-user. I wouldn't claim that one or the other choice is explicitly wrong or evil, as people have different tech needs and different amounts of skill/time to devote to this stuff. That said, I personally have tried to be more thoughtful about what I do and do not control with respect to my digital life.

I have an iPhone, use a MacBook for work (only options are windows and Mac), but use Linux at home. I was an android user years ago, but one of the things that pushed me away is google treating android users as a data source. There were ‘bugs’ which caused the google services to run constantly in the background. In my opinion, Apple cares about users privacy lot more than google does. Use whatever tool suits you best.

I use windows, Apple products and Linux. I prefer FOSS products and will go out of my way to use Ubuntu or arch on my desktop and laptops (going on 15 years) even if it’s harder to get working in certain situations (e.g., gaming). I have to use windows at work. I use apple products (iPhone, iPad, headphones, watch) for the same reasons OP stated, they just work. I need a reliable phone and don’t trust google or the other android manufactures so I see apple as the lesser evil.

Use whatever is best for your situation.