Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.
As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.
Thank you and happy chatting!
I spoke the other day about rich people whingeing that they don't have enough to retire in luxury. In today's news there is a 67 year old man who hates his job and wants to retire. However the poor thing only has $700K saved up. This only gives him $28K a year in interest. 
Poor old dear still hasn't paid off his mortgage so how will he manage on that?
How the other half live.
67 with that amount saved and a significant chunk of your mortgage to pay off is not rich.
Also that money isn't interest, it's the estimated rate of withdrawal they'd be able to do without running out of money before dying. The money itself is probably split between stocks and bonds, with more bonds to mitigate risk
It's incredibly normal to get mad at a 67 year old wanting to retire but not being financially secure enough. What are you talking about?
He is financially secure enough, he just doesn't want to have to downsize and budget - ie live like a normal person. That's the point of the post, someone who is wealthy enough to retire is whingeing that he can't afford to retire when the truth is he absolutely can afford to retire if he's satisfied with living comfortably rather than luxuriously. Most people nowadays will never own their own home, work multiple jobs and go without heating and meals, barely surviving, while this man complains he can't both retire right now and keep living an above-average lifestyle.
65% of Americans are homeowners. It's really not that luxurious, especially with a mortgage.
And what is he to downsize to? Renting? He should just subjugate himself to the whims of landlords while on a fixed income if he wants to retire? In a lot of places $28k a year is barely enough for a one bedroom and a car. I lived in a cockroach infested studio with no car when I made that much. It wasn't even in a major metro area and I'm young and can walk everywhere.
You're getting mad at a guy that almost managed to play the game right and scrape by instead of the game that fucks most of us over.
We have literally 3 pieces of information on this person:
That is nowhere near enough to determine that they're financially secure. We don't even know where they live! ~45k a year is not luxurious living anywhere in the US, and their standard of living will only get worse as inflation continues.
Again, just because some people have it worse than this person doesn't mean this person is in a "good" situation.
~~could you link to the news story?~~ the numbers we have are painting a pretty different picture. i.e. someone who added very little to their retirement savings and now has enough to retire to just above the US poverty line. I wouldn't call that comfortable, especially with the medical expenses of being at retirement age. like from the picture you're painting of this person is of one less well off than the standard of living working people deserve and that our society is capable of providing them.
EDIT: realized it wasn't a text post.
The link to the story is in the post, I think. All we know is "I'm 67 and desperate to retire. My boss is an absolute tyrant and I hate it every day. I have $700K saved but still have a hefty mortgage."
$28k is more money than I've ever had in my entire life lmao. He could downgrade into something that doesn't require a mortgage and could cash out on stocks/bonds. Like the OP states, he wants to maintain a life of luxury and not have to part with his assets. The rest of us will part ways with possessions, move to different countries, eat fewer meals, give away our pets, etc. if we have to.
This fuck could move into something more affordable in a smaller space, but that would mean having to live like some kind of poor.
Oh yeah he should just cash out the 401k, owe a third of it to the government in income tax just for the hell of it, then start renting and live at the whims of landlords all because some internet socialists are mad an old guy did what most Americans do to retire. If he happens to make it to 80 when he'll run out of money he can just start working again np.
Not rich compared to jeff bezos maybe. Very rich compared to a huge number of everyday people who'll never earn their own home, work two jobs to survive and go without food and heating. As far as the mortgage being a problem, downsize?
Has he tried not buying avocado toast?
He should cancel his netflix subscription, then he can retire immediately.
Probably has that >$100 sports cable package.
$28k/year
my rent alone is about half that and I live on a postage stamp in the boonies. This is not very much money especially when you consider that it is a fixed income and inflation will continue to make things more expensive while this person is in retirement.
28k a year in interest. That's not counting annuity payments on the principle itself being withdrawn.
A 67 year old man can expect to live to 81 years old per actuarial tables. That's 14 years of withdrawals, or $50,000 per year on top of the 28k.
And what happens when they turn 82 years old?
Assuming your time of death is a serious gamble in a country with such few safety nets.
Then he will rejoin the rest of us in the prole boat, welcome to America
Yeah I'm sure an 82 year old will definitely be able to physically work a full-time job at the same salary he had before he retired.
In fact, I'm absolutely positive being retired for 15 years wouldn't affect getting hired or keeping up with modern technology at all. Stay at home moms famously have no issues getting right back into the work force for great pay after the kids are grown and their ex-husbands leave them for someone a decade younger. I don't see what the big deal is??? 
As leftists you do realize our ultimate aim is to improve the material conditions of the working class right?
I'm pointing out how shit the American retirement system is that you are just dumped in the cold when the money runs out. I was also just pointing out people's math is just wrong in this thread, $28k/year is based on 4% withdrawal and a 30 year expected life span. This 67 year old man doesn't have a 30 year expected lifespan so the amount would be higher. Sorry for just pointing out that your math is wrong in this thread
Nowhere did I say this was "no big deal" or that this man should be thrown to the streets. You are reading into things that don't exist and tilting at windmills. This man is in a fairly comfortable position, better than 90% of the American population and all of us will be in at his age. The median amount of wealth Americans have at retirement age is $200,000 according to this, or less than 1/3 of what this home-owning man has. I'm just not weeping for the middle class boomer's plight when literally everyone else has it worse.
🎻
I understand that a lot of people look at those numbers and think that's an obscene chunk of money, but $28k/yr as a retiree (especially one who doesn't have fully paid off housing) is not liveable. This person still has property taxes to pay, utilities, groceries, and above all else massively inflated medical expenses (which may very well wreck their body to the point where working is a literal impossibility).
Also, for retirement money you're not taking the interest but instead slowly doling out what money you have saved up year over year, so the amount you could sustainably take out will shrink over time... which means if you live longer than you expected, now you're in a position where you have no money at all at the point in your life where your support network has quite literally died off and you have no ability to work anymore.
4% rate of withdrawal is supposed to be "safe" for 30 years, but that's only a 90-95% chance. So based off that around 1 in 10 or 20 people end up with nothing but social security even before the 30 years is up
I haven't been able to save anything. There have been at least 3 different times that I had to drain my 401k just to keep a roof over me.
This old, crusty boomer should just die and leave that money to his kids.
I had a tiny amount saved, like a “get wiped out by medical emergency” amount and then being unemployed has erased most of that
That's pretty much been my experience.
This only gives him $28K a year in interest.
Damn, where you getting 4% interest on savings, dawg? 
HYSAs are around 3.5-4% right now. But this is estimated safe withdrawal rate, not interest
Because I have direct deposit with CashApp, I get 4% on my savings account. It's got $0 in it... But if I could save any I would get a great interest rate! I think PayPal may have something similar.
And I thought your last post was already absurd. Sheesh, if I ever should get to 67, I would very definitely not have anything saved. Like... how tf do some people think they're off bad when they have more per year for their retirement than I've ever earned in my entire life?
Everyone is acting like this guy is in some horrible situation but I'll never have 700k and the planet will be an inferno by the I'm 67. I think he's doing okay.
Honestly sick of hearing about retiries at this point.
I mean, that much money comes out to around $1,000 into his retirement each year working (backtesting with testfol.io, assuming he's a boglehead), which really isn't a huge amount of money. It's entirely possible to do that while making less than median American salary ($48,000/year).
Depending on his family arrangement, 28k a year would put him in the bottom 20% of Americans, and only 4k-8k above the American poverty line.
Admittedly, his savings are a bit above average.
real crabs-in-a-bucket hours. love to vilify someone for being a fat cat who put $85/month into retirement savings over their working life. love to criticize the wealthy "other half" who have enough retirement savings to... checks notes live just above the poverty line.
Median savings at retirement is $200k, less than 1/3 of what this person has. They're not only "above average" they're triple the median and in an extremely comfortable position relative to most of their peers
That makes sense, financials tend to be skewed, so mean is a lot higher than median.
Just go be a sexpat gentryfier in Vietnam, what's the downside? People hating your guts? Just like home, but with better healthcare, food and neighbors.
Ideally yo would be imprisoned for being a white demon, but the world isn't a good place.
