Definitely Do Not Put Plastic in the Microwave : science

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 159 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not sure food blogs are the best choice for this. The article goes on to talk about BPA and phthlates, but neither of those exist in pure HDPE or PP.

BPA is found in polycarbonate plastics (~~acrylic~~) (Edit: brain lapse, acrylic is PMMA) and epoxy resins. Phthalates are in PVC (vinyl). Using the word 'plastic' as a ~~monomer~~ mononym (Edit: lol wrong mono) is dangerous for many reasons, and causation vs correlation is one reason why.

I mean, definitely go with glass if you have the choice, sure, but let's also actually try to be accurate if we invoke the scientific method.

I would also love for there to be really robust testing of food containers of all varieties direct at the manufacturers, with heavy fines involved if they're using additives but claiming it's a food-safe plastic.

[-] MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago

Here's the study in question. Can't speak to the authenticity of it but off the top I don't see anything shady

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

It doesn't look shady, but I can only access the abstract which just says "plastics" and doesn't specify that part further, unfortunately.

[-] valaramech@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

For me, it has a picture where it specifies a "polypropylene container".

There's also this bit from near the end of the abstract:

Additionally, the polyethylene-based food pouch released more particles than polypropylene-based plastic containers. Exposure modeling results suggested that the highest estimated daily intake was 20.3 ng/kg·day for infants drinking microwaved water and 22.1 ng/kg·day for toddlers consuming microwaved dairy products from polypropylene containers.

So, they're, at least, discussing polypropylene and polyethylene.

[-] ArcticDagger@feddit.dk 4 points 1 year ago

From the method section of the paper:

Materials and Property Characterization. From a popular US chain store, two brands of baby food containers made of polypropylene and one brand of reusable food pouch with- out material information on the label were purchased. The selection of polypropylene containers was based on its widespread use in baby food packaging. These choices aimed to showcase diverse types of baby food packaging. The food containers and the food pouch were analyzed for their semicrystalline structure and thermal stability by DSC using a Q200 differential scanning calorimeter (TA Instruments, New Castle, DE). Briefly, a small sample weighing between 3 and 8 mg was taken from each container or pouch, placed in a DSC aluminum pan/lid assem- bly, and crimped with a press. The samples were heated and cooled at a rate of 10 °C/min under a nitrogen atmosphere, resulting in calori- metric curves that indicate the heat transfer to and from the polymer sample during the thermal cycle, which was used to monitor phase transitions. H u s s a i n e t a l . i n E n v i r o n . S c i . T e c h n o l . 5 7 ( 2 0 2 3 ) 5 Transmission wide-angle X-ray diffraction (WAXD) of the reusable food pouch was performed at the 12-ID-B beamline at the Advanced Pho- ton Source (Argonne National Laboratory), using incident X-rays with energy 13.30 keV and a Pilatus 300k 2D detector mounted 0.4 m from the sample. WAXD patterns of the two plastic containers were acquired in reflection geometry with a Bruker-AXS D8 Discover equipped with a Cu Kα lab source (λ = 1.5406 A) and a Vantec 500 area detector. In all cases, the acquired 2D patterns were radially averaged to produce 1D intensity (I) vs scattering vector (q) plots

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

two brands of baby food containers made of polypropylene and one brand of reusable food pouch

These choices aimed to showcase diverse types of baby food packaging

3 brands, two of the same overall declared material, and no reference to manufacturer formulation safety data. If this is an American paper, the FDA requires substances that come into contact with food to be vetted, so the information should exist somewhere if these are legally sold. Which is obviously not guaranteed. This is not giving me much hope for this study.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 8 points 1 year ago

One of the biggest travesties today is that so many scientific studies are locked behind pay walls.

[-] tavu@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 year ago

BPA is found in polycarbonate plastics (acrylic) [...]

Polycarbonate (BPA monomer) is a very different polymer to acrylic/PMMA (methyl methacrylate monomer).

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

Oops, my mistake. I've been looking at too many acrylics and polycarbonates for use in a non-food setting. Thanks for the correction!

[-] cyberic@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 year ago

Love all the edits. Thanks for the informative comment.

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

I try to keep it honest and accurate, I would hate to spread more misinformation accidentally. If only my long-covid memory were a little more cooperative!

load more comments (5 replies)

[-] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago

Here's the thing. If the plastic is not microwave safe, then it is not any-sort-of-heat safe. The microwave is simply a heating device. The method is different but at the end of day, it vibrates molecules to heat em up.

[-] GenderNeutralBro 14 points 1 year ago

Most people wouldn't put plastic on a stovetop or in an oven to begin with. Where else is plastic typically heated with food in it?

[-] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Most fast food restaurants and food processing plants. Hot dogs in the plastic casing as they are heated in the factory. Fast food (taco places have meat bags that they heat up before cutting open for use).

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Flambo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Maybe in a sous vide? But a separate issue will be already-quite-hot food being put into plastic. Think they let your takeout noodles/soup cool before putting it in a plastic container?

[-] Ddhuud@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

When you put hot food in it.

[-] bassomitron@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Baby bottles. We use a bottle warmer that heats the bottle with steam, but yeah, I'd say breast milk/formula counts. That being said, I don't think I've ever seen bottles not rated as being safe for bottle warmers? And you'd never put a bottle in a microwave (process is too harsh on breast milk and consequently ruins much of its nutritional value, not sure about formula).

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Wahots@pawb.social 25 points 1 year ago

I've switched to mostly glass, metal, and wood kitchenware, but even those have plastic lids. I try to get paper milk jugs, which I thought were lined with wax, but apparently are plastic? It's almost impossible to get away from this shit.

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

If it makes you feel any better the milk, and all the foods you eat, already contain micro-plastics 👍

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Paper stuff that is meant to hold liquids will always be just a plastic bag with carton structure. Wax would be fine if you were filling and storing the liquid in your own home. But wax lined paper would never survive the shortest of transportation. Completely non-feasible for industrial scale agriculture. Soft drinks in cans also have plastic linings, metals are more resistant but would also eventually corrode in the midterm.

[-] Seudo@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why? Like, is this equivilant to 'smoking cigarettes will kill you?' Or more, 'going within ten metres of a running automobile will kill you?' Because stress and anxiety will kill you dead too. So...

[-] zik@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I suspect the next generation will be horrified that people ever cooked in plastic. Or ate or drank out of plastic. They'll think of it the same way we think of lead pipes now.

The evidence of terrible health effects of plastic seems to be adding up very fast. Pthalates, PFAS, and microplastics all seem to be implicated in the increasing rates of ill health, cancer and cardiovascular disease.

[-] Wooshock@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

I never put this kind of plastic on the microwave. But I also worry about paper plates, which have some kind of polyethylene coating that is really really hard to find any info about online. Ive fucking eaten cheese that has been boiled on a "paper" plate, only to find that those plates were coated in some kind of polymer.

By the way, the insides of aluminum cans are coated in plastic.

Sweet dreams!

[-] Coreidan@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

There is plastic in everything you consume now. You can’t get away from it unless you retreat to the wilderness.

[-] agent_flounder@lemmy.one 26 points 1 year ago

Uh, they found a plastic bag in the Mariana Trench. No place is free of it, anymore.

[-] Jimbo@yiffit.net 13 points 1 year ago

Nope, plastic there as well

[-] Gingerlegs@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’d like to know if sous vide is safe though, please? I’ve been doing that for years…

[-] eee@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

This article focuses on microwaving, but the news about sous vide isn't great:

"This study proved that the sous vide method causes polymer degradation at high temperatures and longer time periods": https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36398752/

[-] oldGregg@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago

ralph

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

We all are, my friend. We all are.

[-] TheTurducken@mander.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

Don't eat at Olive Garden or really any fast casual. They all hold items in plastic in hot water.

[-] WHYAREWEALLCAPS@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

While I cannot read the article, the abstract does not describe an issue of microplastics transferring from the sous vide container to the fish, rather the effect of the high temps over longer time on the microplastics already present in the fish.

[-] Gingerlegs@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I expected this and I’m still mad

Edit: SOMEONE TELL GUGA

load more comments (2 replies)

[-] PatFussy@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

But all my foods have microplastics in it

[-] MoxFcCloud@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

Can't wait for the "low microplastics" stamp on all my food in a couple years

[-] AceBonobo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

"Less than lethal" amount

[-] robocall@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I just bought some new plastic food storage containers that I like.

[-] instamat@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Be sure to microwave everything you eat in it, according to the article. (I may have misunderstood the point of the article)

[-] TheObserver@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

I use plastic bowls in microwaves all the time. In fact every single day. At this rate I'm going to turn into a auton from doctor who 🤣.

Sorry but pizza rolls in a microwave are just too damn good! Fuck the oven!

[-] Backspacecentury@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

Are you insane? Pizza rolls are a million times better out of the oven. No contest.

[-] eatmoregreenfood@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

Air fryer all day

[-] BaroqueInMind@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Which is actually just a fucking small convection oven.

[-] Player2@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

Yes, a smaller, more efficient, and faster one.

load more comments (1 replies)