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The generation that spent decades saying "if you couldn't afford kids you should have kept your legs closed" upon realizing that those that can't afford kids are, in fact, not having kids:
shockedPikachu.bmp
Then they also spent a good amount of time attacking abortion and contraception.
Also having kids in such a horrible political and environmental context is pretty fucking shitty.
While the environment is a valid argument against, "politically" is very different. Even accounting for trumpy and the right-wing nut jobs, this is still the safest period in humanities history to have kids
We have measles outbreaks again.
YOU have measels outbreaks.
Quit your xenophobia. This is a global problem.
There was 1 case of measles in my country this year. 14 last year. This is a garbage country problem, like the U.S.
Why would you bring kids into a world we are actively killing?
Not true at all. We have never had a man-made climate change disaster like this.
I'd like to take this moment to inform/remind people about filial responsibility laws. Filial responsibility refers to a legal concept where adult children are made responsible for their aging parents, including financially, for housing, for health care, and more. The laws differ by region, so it would be best to look it up for your particular location.
This is why some people are calling Millennials a "sandwich generation" - many of us are (or are going to be) made responsible for both the generation we raise, and for the generation that raised us, leaving us squished in the middle like a sandwich.
I foresee a lot of millennial die offs in their 50s from just the stress of everything.
Having a kid is the most selfish thing one can do with their life. You're saying "I like myself and my partner so much and think we're so good for the world that im going to make a mini copy of me and my partner, because the world needs more of us"
Can't force you to have kids, the kids aren't asking to be conceived or born. Only person making that decision is you and its a selfish one.
I say this as a father of two girls
This.
It's the same sort of hand-waving you'd come across in the Bible, or in old history books.
"See, the reason why this once flourishing civilization suddenly faltered is... they had become too arrogant."
Or they sinned too much, whatever.
Governments and corpos want free meat for the meat grinder without providing living conditions that don’t make people actively crave death. They can suck a fat load.
I just don't want kids.
I mean, "I don't want this" is a very selfish reason, generally. But being selfish isn't automatically bad.
When it comes to what you do with your own body, for example, selfishness is valid.
And when it's about kids in particular, it's the far more kind and responsible choice not to inflict the guilt of "I'm unwanted" on them.
Good on you for being responsibly selfish!
Selfishness is by definition about having little regard for others. I don't really see the connection; how is refraining from procreation a disregard for others? If anything, choosing not to have kids is selfless, as it is being unconcerned with propagating my genetic lineage. The nice thing about sentience is that we're not beholden to our biology. In most cases, we consider it a good thing to rise above being driven by instinct.
Selfishness is by definition about having little regard for others.
Correct. Generally, simply saying "I don't do this because I don't want to" does fit that criterion, as it justifies an action by your own desires only, without offering any consideration for the effect on others.
However, in this specific case:
how is refraining from procreation a disregard for others?
This example is a difficult, messy one. Generally, a species requires offspring to survive, and particularly our modern society depends on having young people work to sustain the retired ones. It's a generational contract, sorta paying forward the support we'd like to receive when we're old, in the expectation that each subsequent generation will help carry their predecessors and "repay" us for it. By not having kids, you're depriving the future retirees of people to support them.
However, you obviously also have to consider the best for the children you'd set into this world. To have children just because your parents expect it, without regard for the kids' wellbeing, would be irresponsible and inconsiderate. And particularly in our world today, I can't say that inflicting it upon any children is fair to them.
Either way, your personal freedom entitles you to make that choice and it is not my place (or anyone else's) to gainsay your decision.
I just wanted to point out that selfish doesn't always equate to evil: There are cases where selfishness is absolutely valid.
I do get what you're saying. And I should say I have enormous respect for people who choose to have children and follow through with raising them. But it's a type of selfishness to want to extend one's particular family line rather than choosing to adopt one of the many children who currently need a parental figure in their lives. If there were few of us and this was a matter of actual continuation of the species, the common societal framing would make more sense. But as it is, the choice carries no real ethical/moral imperative other than the responsibility to potential offspring.
Doing something or not doing it because it's the right thing for you is not inherently selfish. It's exactly the freedom we all cherish. And I think the typical framing of selfish/selfless does more harm than good in this case. We may just disagree over semantics. But at least here, "selfish" carries negative connotations, as the disregard described in the definition must assume some entitlement that the group has over an individual's decision. I'm mostly pushing back against the foundations of that entitlement. Thanks for engaging with this thoughtfully. I appreciate the discussion!
I'm mostly pushing back against the foundations of that entitlement.
I'm trying to push back against the connotation, so I think we're fighting the same fight on different fronts here :D
I'm also not going to have kids, for what it's worth.
Selfish fucking boomers projecting their selfishness upon others. Typical.
Those approaching retirement age need us to breed more kids so there'll be someone whose work pays and sustains their retirement. From their point of view, not having them is selfish of us.
Never mind that, in light of the shit they burdened us and our hypothetical kids with, the stance "clean up our shit, then wipe our asses too" is even worse.
It makes sense in a certain framing; that framing is just bloody stupid.
Not only are they pulling the proverbial ladder up even more, they're now adding ankle weights to those who had a chance to try climbing it.
Correct, the most selfless act is to birth casualties for the next war. Their childhood poverty and lack of dreams will ensure it works!
Anything but creating a future people want to bring kids into. Posterity is dead.
I had a MAGAt religious zealot who was YOUNGER than me say I'm selfish for being ace. The mentality certainly surpasses generations.
I think it's sad that things are so hard for folks who want to be great parents and raise amazing new human beings. It's super shitty that anyone would be demonized for wanting to raise a family, especially considering they most likely aren't the reason the world sucks and is too expensive most places. I agree the reason you see so much complaining about birth rates with no action is everything to do with folks wanting more meat for the grinder without budging on anything cost related to quality of life for said families. You see zero movement on trying to make it easier to have children, just complaining.
Because smart phones give almost as much dopamine as a good bonk.
