this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2025

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renewable energy (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 4 days ago by big_spoon@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

25 comments fedilink hide all child comments

so...that was the secret all along?

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[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Look, putting up your own solar panels is great and i'm all for it. But it's no substitute for a national power grid connected to actual power stations. Scale always wins in the end. Relying on individual people to put up and maintain their own solar panels is like the backyard furnaces experiment in the Mao era. A necessary step if you're poor or trying to catch up technologically, or if you're too disorganized to do anything but decentralized anarchy, but eventually you do have to build industrial scale facilities on a centrally planned network.

[+] Darkcommie@lemmygrad.ml -8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Except this question is pegged at Americans most of whom can afford to install a solar power grid yet choose not to because of a lack of care for the planet

[–] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 4 days ago (1 children)

dawg how fucking rich do you think we are

most Americans would be homeless if credit cards didn't exist

[+] rentasintorn@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 4 days ago (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 4 days ago

Yeah, don't the majority of USians not even have a few hundred dollars saved for an emergency expense?

[+] Darkcommie@lemmygrad.ml -14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Most people are normal middle class middle aged dudes who absolutely have the money to buy solar most Americans arent blue collar theyre white collar

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Middle class isn't a real class though, its a capitalist propoganda fiction. Second I fail to see what "collar" job someone is working, unless you are using it as shorthand for the income being made. In my personal experience, using white vs Blue collar, or trade vs profession, does more to devide the working class, especially in the states than grow class solitary. Third even understanding that this would only be aimed at the home owning population of the US, so that skews more wealthy, all reports I can find say anywhere from 54% to 60% of US home owners cannot afford regular maintainence in their home (https://todayshomeowner.com/general/guides/home-repair-survey/) (https://www.groundworks.com/resources/do-you-have-enough-savings-to-cover-a-major-home-repair/) (https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/home-repairs-are-out-reach-many-lower-income-homeowners) Given this is unable to do full repair and maintenance, I doubt that it wpuld be reasonable to assume they could afford to put up addition infrustructure on their house.

[–] Darkcommie@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

What solidarity exactly? How do their interests align with mine, If I want America to scale back its production so I can afford to live on this shitty rock will any American accept that offer seriously ask yourself that

[–] ComradePupIvy@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 days ago

What I am saying is I have not found, in any context deviding workers into White Vs. Blue or Professional vs Tradsman is antithetical to building any class cohesion, as it only pushes on an interclass devide. We cannot hope to build a working class movement when we contenue to add divisions.

As for your second point that is over the topic of imperalism, while yes the United States, and many of if not most of the citizens of the US significantly benefit from this imperalism. That should not catagoricaly refuse them the benefit of an attempt to build class solidarity even if it is unlikely. I cannot speak for "All" USians, however I am sure that in the 3rd most populous nation I would be able to find atleast 1 person who is willing to make that deal.

On your comment of "Scale back its production" I do need more specificity, because the United States has been offshoring quite a bit of its production, and has started to cause some domestic friction at the least.

Lastly none of this pertains to the primary point of my previous post, namely being most Americans, who own houses, cannot afford to put up solar panels on their house, regardless of if they wanted to.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 days ago

Most people are literally not "normal middle class middle aged dudes" what are you talking about?

[–] LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net 16 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

If we got solar panels my neighbors stupid fucking oak tree that dumps leaves all up in my driveway would just block them for half the year

[–] Champoloo@hexbear.net 19 points 4 days ago

They can't do rent-seeking with renewable energy.

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 23 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Tbf, I don't own a roof and couldn't afford a solar power station on top of it, even if I did. But I get it, I'm much closer to solar than to that other stuff. That also includes nuclear and fusion.

[–] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I want a backyard SMR so bad.

[–] Malkhodr@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

That wouldn't be an SMR, as an SMR requires an output of at least 20 MW, which is significantly higher than any thing a single household would need.

A backyard reactor would be a Microreacter rather than an SMR. Though personally I think a single neighborhood/ward SMR might be better suited, even then, I think an actual Power Plant for a metropolitan area would be superior on fuel use per household powered.

[–] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 11 points 4 days ago (3 children)

yeah don't exactly see the roof owning class installing a lot of solar

[–] geolaw@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 4 days ago

I am lucky enough to own a roof and I do have solar.

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

it's somewhat dependent on the angle and rotation of the roof relative to the sun whether solar would be effective at all. it can also take several decades to make your money back in electricity savings and there's a lot of reasons not to commit to that.

[–] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 4 days ago

Germany paid early and bandwagon adopters of rooftop solar almost €0.10/kWh to sell back to the grid for fifteen plus years. There is so much residential solar here it actually causes problems for grid operators.

That buyback subsidy has ended but with some of the highest electricity prices in the world and a political environment which is pushing electric heating, new solar installs are still popular.

[–] GreatSquare@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Several decades? Is this hypothetical house inside a cave? Sounds more like anti-renewable energy propaganda.

In Australia, it takes between about 3-7 years to break even on the total cost of a system. Not close to several decades.

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 9 points 4 days ago (2 children)

not propaganda, just southern canada and a decade out of date.

[–] Cat_Daddy@hexbear.net 6 points 4 days ago

Still plenty of sun in southern Canada to make enough power for your house. The payback isn't based on latitude so much as it is local power cost. Granted, latitude matters eventually, like in northern Canada. But wind would be an excellent alternative in that case.

[–] GreatSquare@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 4 days ago

Still sounds questionable. E.g. the chart here for Canadian solar (https://kuby.ca/solar/solar-information/articles/the-cost-of-solar-panels) shows that you hit a relative break even point at 9-10 years on a $15k system. And a complete break even at under 20 years.

That sounds well under several decades to me.

[–] Maeve1@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 4 days ago

It's happening! Probably not in any gated communities, but a house not far from me has it.

[–] chesmotorcycle@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 4 days ago

Some solar providers in the US offer leasing options. Much easier to make a monthly payment on panels than a lump sum.