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The games industry sucks (www.youtube.com)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by dustyData@lemmy.world to c/games@lemmy.world

Same title as the video. Game dev writer Alanah Pierce offers her POV on the recent layoffs from Epic Games.

This is one of the few industries that consistently and continuously posts record profits while also firing everyone who put in the work to make the success possible.

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[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 130 points 1 year ago

I don't know how to say this but corporations suck. They turn human spirit into profits and excrement. Anything led by a corporation will inevitably suck if it doesn't right off the bat.

[-] moody@lemmings.world 50 points 1 year ago

The stock market has to be one of the biggest mistakes we've made as human beings.

[-] PeterPoopshit@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What even is the point? The stock market is just a ticking time bomb and when it fucks up, somehow people lose their job and their house and anything else thats sustained by income. This makes sense how??? How is the stock market not considered a crime against humanity? It doesn't benefit anyone except maybe rich people but rich people are already rich so who tf cares.

[-] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago

Because it makes the fat cats even richer, they couldn't give less of a fuck about the rest of us.

It's time the fat cats had a heart attack.

[-] WHYAREWEALLCAPS@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

You know that their time's coming to an end

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[-] Haui@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 year ago

Are there any tech co-ops or 100% employee owned companies? Could be a system forward.

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I'm sure there are. But, at least in the states, many tech people are also right-leaning libertarians. Co-ops are unpopular with them because they want to be the kings in the castle, not equal with their peers.

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[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 114 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Alanah is a great creator. She worked for IGN as a reporter for years, then at Funhaus as a host/editor, and finally broke into games writing, which was her goal for a long time. She also hosts an excellent cross discipline gaming podcast with gaming actors/musicians/devs talking about all things gaming.

Shes seen the industry from every angle. Its telling that her conclusion as a whole is "this is fucked."

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 97 points 1 year ago

I don't think you need that much insight to see that the whole institution is fucked.

  • Rampant "frat bro" culture
  • Frequent cases of sexual harrassment, and assault
  • Cases of suicide
  • Cases of burnout
  • Layoffs like clockwork
  • Often deliver rubbish products
  • Frequently employs consumer-hostile and manipulative tactics

What is even the point, really? Maybe I'm an outlier but I don't feel like the AAA gaming industry provides enough good to warrant all the crap they put their workers through, and the way the ~~sentient wallets~~ customers are treated.

[-] money_loo@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

The point is to make as much money as possible while paying the workers as little as is possible. Same as it ever was.

They could always pay us more, but we’re just supposed to be happy they aren’t sending the Pinkertons to shoot our women and children anymore, I guess?

[-] dojan@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

By asking "what's the point" I meant less "what's their goals" and more "what benefit do they serve?"

I'd love for some big swoop to just upend the entire industry. Create better conditions for the workers. Stop the companies from stealing from artists. Have actual consequences for nepotism, corruption, and abuse of power. Like crunch and all that BS is just expected as though it is because of the job, but it's not, it's because of the system.

[-] money_loo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I guess the “benefit” they serve is to increase the payout % for the people at the top of the ladder and their goal is to do that until the breaking point that some higher up takes the blame and they fall with a golden parachute before landing at another company exactly the same as the last one.

Rinse and repeat until you’re Summering on a yacht? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

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[-] kromem@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

She's been great for a long time. One of the few people with public comments on the industry that has a really great intuitive grasp on the business side of it.

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[-] verysoft@kbin.social 67 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's impossible to get people to stop buying AAA games, but please, stop buying AAA games.

[-] Kill_joy@kbin.social 44 points 1 year ago

I would actually just settle for not pre ordering AAA games as a good place to start.

[-] AVengefulAxolotl@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

This I do not understand. I am sure a ton of people pre-ordered Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty even though we know how it launched. (And I love the game, I followed all the news, but even I could wait for a fckin day to wait for the reviews)

[-] derpgon@programming.dev 10 points 1 year ago

The strategy to this is to buy so much crap on Steam and Humble Bundle that you don't have time to pre-order AAA games.

For example, I love Borderlands series, and I have so many games to play that I could easily wait for TTW to be on sale - lo and behold, 10 bucks in a Humble Monthly with all the DLCs, and extra 7 games with it aswell. Banger.

[-] H_Interlinked@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

It baffles me how anyone can stand to preorder any game with the market being so oversaturated. There are SO MANY great games on a constant $20 or less sale rotation you'll probably never have a chance to play if you're a full-time working adult. I'm worried about grabbing a highly acclaimed title that's been out for 5 years before it fades into obscurity, and I have to stumble upon a shout-out 3 years later to be reminded of its existence. Not about some stupid launch skin bonus, or OST mp3s you'll never click open.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Indie stuff is way more interesting anyway, but I could never get my old lan party friends to look at them.

[-] Grippler@feddit.dk 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

For me, the visuals are a huge part of gaming, i simply don't like the style of most indie games go for. The "artsy" stylistic graphics, the 80's inspired pixel graphics, the simple polygon graphic is all indie games seem to choose between these days, and in personally hate looking at it.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Meh. Today's realistic graphics is tomorrow's retro graphics. If a game was fun ten years ago, it's fun today. If it was only playable ten years ago because of the graphics, but isn't it playable today, it wasn't fun in the first place.

[-] H_Interlinked@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

"Choose" isn't really an accurate term to use in your comment though, is it? Obviously high-realism AAA game graphics are going to come with a high budget outside the realm of possibility for the average indie dev, unless they have some super talented people with a passion for the project working for cheap.

A lot of us are willing to make this concession or adjust expectations for an experience that has great gameplay, soundtrack, story, etc. as easily as reading subtitles to enjoy a foreign film. The imagination can do plenty of the heavy lifting.

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[-] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago

What defines AAA?

Like, is baldurs gate AAA?

Or just anything from EA, Ubisoft, etc.?

[-] H_Interlinked@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

Larian is an unusual case. It's indie but it's huge. They aren't funded by or marketing through a bigger publishing company so IMO that's still indie. But they're hundreds of people so not really small, and BG3 can by all means be considered a AAA game because the difference in quality and scale is indistinguishable from AAA published games.

[-] verysoft@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Id say BG3 probably falls into "III" or perhaps AA if you count Larian as such, they certainly didnt have a large marketing campaign on par with AAA.

AAA are games from large publishers that spend millions on development and marketing, so such as EA, Ubi, ActiBlizz, CDPR, Playstation, Xbox etc

I still play AAA games occasionally, but I've enjoyed gaming so much more since I got more selective with them.

ToTK was worthwhile, but even for the newest entry in my favorite series since childhood, (from a developer with a pretty good track record for their games) I still waited a week to see if any launch bugs needed to be ironed out.

I can't even remember the last AAA game I bought before that.

[-] Frogster8@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago

Profit margin driven companies backed by a capitalist society where infinite growth is deemed viable sucks*

[-] Tischkante@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 1 year ago

Also layoffs temporarily raise the stock price, it's probably more costly in the long run… but who cares as long as the numbers go up for a bit and everyone gets bonuses.

[-] aesthelete@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

who cares as long as the numbers go up for a bit

Especially when you're mostly stock compensated. Just make the numbers go up long enough to see your share prices soar, browse around for a different job in the meantime. Sell your stocks at a high, exit the company as it implodes behind you. Rinse and repeat.

[-] fosforus@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

who cares as long as the numbers go up for a bit

Ironically, that's the motivation with which I play many games.

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[-] newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Form a Professional Game Developers Union.

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago

Indie game development works well. It's really just that large companies suck in video games as well as all other areas, so not really news.

[-] schaffertom@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago

cough capita cough lism cough

[-] DudeDudenson@lemmings.world 4 points 1 year ago

How could we have expected this was going to happen if we made it a law companies are obligated to do everything in their power to increase profits!

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

will anybody think of the C-suite?!?!?! How will they be able to face their other rich friends if they don't wage-steal to ensure they hit record profits quarter after quarter?????

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[-] skellener@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

It’s always sucked - at least with large companies.

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[-] CosmoNova@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago

On a different note I just watched a very similar video that was recommended to me by a pretty much unknown creator about the importance of indie developers and pretty much everything Alanah says here shows how important they really are. To imagine where we would be without tiny indies breaking the mold... it sends a shudder down my spine. 'Indies > AAA' has been my way to go for many years, now that I think about it.

[-] WarmSoda@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

These companies have always used the call center style of employment.

They're 'seasonal' positions.

[-] DudeDudenson@lemmings.world 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah having worked in a call center for 3 years I always find it amusing when people think these issues are related to a certain industry when in reality it's just the core essence of capitalism calling for infinite growth in a finite market

[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

It absolutely sucks, but many of the standard calls of "it's always been shit" and "boycott" aren't really doing anything outside of virtue signalling or trying to hold a moral view to a company that couldn't give a fuck about the 0.001% of people that action these views.

Regarding software engineering, I've often said that "if the games industry doesn't unionise, there's no hope for the rest of the tech industry", and I still stand by that. While there are obvious complications in forming unions in a global market, I truly believe that the US is often the barrier towards workers rights. If American workers can unionise, you can bet that those in Europe would do so too.

[-] rambaroo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Too many devs think they're above unionizing. It's going to be very difficult to pull off. They won't be interested until it's too late.

Bottom line is that tech is chock full of greedy fucking people who only care about what they're getting paid this year.

I don't think the gaming industry could lead on this issue though. It's tech companies like FAANG that really lead the market and that's where people refuse to organize.

[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I couldn't agree more. I'm a software engineer at a FAANG company, and the split is very apparent. There are either people that would love to see a union (but know their employer would happily fire 100k+ people for even trying it), alongside people that believe unions are the devil. There was a shift in the last 12 months due to the mass layoffs and the nature of how someone with a decade or more of loyal work can be locked out and fired immediately without so much as a "goodbye", but there is still a huge number of people that view tech as a "survival of the fittest" thing. I work with some people that even love the idea of URA and the "weakest" people in the team losing their jobs.

Game dev is an interesting thing, though. For decades now, even smaller companies (at the time) like Rare were built from the mentality that you cannot just work 50 hours a week to make a good game, or that once a release is complete, you move on to your next gig. That culture has existed throughout corporate, not just in tech, which is why I'm surprised that there hasn't been a true effort towards unionising industry-wide. Hell, I would've thought that the Activision issues from a while ago would have spurred something too.

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this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2023
348 points (90.1% liked)

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