Star Trek Social Club

Paul Giamatti and Holly Hunter were just absolutely amazing this episode.

Couldn't agree more. Just absolutely riveting scene with little else going on besides his angry ranting and her micro-expressions. So many layers to both of their performances.

I'm with nearly all your other observations too. Even the Kyle Jay Den thing manages to feel natural and awkward in a wholesome realistic way for a character who has had all of ten seconds of screen time.

Yes [Caleb's] an ass at first as the defenses instinctively trigger

This is the only part I'm not sure I fully agree with you on. I think Caleb's reaction to having his childhood trauma brought up against is will during a time he is supposed to be feeling safe being vulnerable is completely understandable. "She can't help it" isn't an excuse in my book. BUT they both handled it maturely later with cool heads and that's what matters. He is definitely going to think she's a badass (maybe because that scene was maybe one of the most badass moments we've ever seen on Star Trek).

After the first appearance I thought he was going to be a lovable scamp, like Harry Mudd or Quark. But MAN.

I thought SNW did a really good job establishing all of the characters in a short season. But SFA is somehow doing even better.

Learning Nus is short for ~~Nusifer~~ Nustopher made me chuckle

Edit: Thanks for the correction @Routhinator@startrek.website !

Though I wish we would have saw her, Discovery name drop!

Even if we don't see any of the cast, it would be SO badass to see Disco pop in and save the day during a space battle for a moment then just pop back out.

Oh yeah, Intrepid Class sighting! If only it hadn’t gotten its ass kicked.

I like the detached nacelles. It's nice to have at least a few clear indicators that technology has advanced in the 800 years since TNG. And it seems like a logical extension of the idea that the nacelles are these big dangerous things that needed to be kept separate from the living spaces and easily jettisoned.

You know I was a liberal until they force detached nacelles down our throats.

Kidding obviously, but I am right there with you 😂

EDIT: For the record I loved the Disco S1 Klingons and they never should have wussed out with those but I can live with it.

I hope the detached nacelles go the way of the S1 Discovery Klingons. They just look so goofy.

Yeah to say nothing about detached hulls! Like what’s with the Intrepid hulls also being detached and floaty? Seems like a system where you have to rely on transporters (I’m assuming?) to get between parts of the ship isn’t great fault tolerance in the event of something going wrong.

Detached shenanigans aside, I definitely didn’t mind how Athena ‘folded her wings’ after coming out of warp, that was badass!

Oh man, I couldn't agree less. Detach everything!

Yeah it's hilarious all the people (who probably aren't even Star Trek Fans) who went on massive rants about the show before it was even released. I look forward to all their heartfelt apologies.

Wasn’t Roddenberry’s original concept for the Ferengi closer to the Furies in this episode?

They were supposed to have large bat ears and the cannibalism rings a bell too — at least the rumours Picard mentions about the Ferengi in TNG ‘Encounter at Farpoint’ included cannibalism.

While the “capitalists on steroids” concept for the Ferengi doesn’t align with the Furies, I still can’t help thinking that Secret Hideout and the Roddenberry estate haven’t pulled out another old idea and reworked it.

Roddenberry’s concept was reworked in the posthumous Andromeda tv show that combined a few of his ‘trunk’ of concepts that were never greenlit. According to the fandom wiki, Magog in Andromeda were “a savage bloodthirsty species feared throughout the universe...(with) baser instincts to kill other living beings for food, or forcibly infest them with Magog eggs for reproduction.“

This ForgottenTrek page on the Ferengi does mention cannibalism and big ears, but I don’t see the prosthetics sketch with the big bat ears that I am recalling.

Do khaosworks@startrek.website or USSBurritotruck@startrek.website happen to have any other references for the original Ferengi concept at hand?

Oh good, I'm not the only one who thought "B'avi" was "Bobby"

My partner, our older GenZ offspring* and I were pretty stunned at the end of that.

I’m trying to think of the last time the franchise had an episode with such a dark ending that was not the first episode in a clear multipart sequence.

This is not cozy Star Trek.

I think spoiler is ok in these threads, but in any case it should be stated on the OP message to avoid confusion

I think Braka and the Venari Ral are an interesting contrast to Osyraa and the Emerald Chain, which was an entirely different flavour of tyranny.