Me_irl : me

[–] lime@feddit.nu 53 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

to anyone as of yet unaware that chiropractic is a scam, here's some quotes from its creator D.D. Palmer:

The knowledge and philosophy given me by Dr. Jim Atkinson, an intelligent spiritual being, together with explanations of phenomena, principles resolved from causes, effects, powers, laws and utility, appealed to my reason. The method by which I obtained an explanation of certain physical phenomena, from an intelligence in the spiritual world, is known in biblical language as inspiration. In a great measure The Chiropractor's Adjuster was written under such spiritual promptings.

... we must have a religious head, one who is the founder, as did Christ, Muhammad, Jo. Smith, Mrs. Eddy, Martin Luther and other who have founded religions. I am the fountain head. I am the founder of chiropractic in its science, in its art, in its philosophy and in its religious phase.

... nor interfere with the religious duty of chiropractors, a privilege already conferred upon them. It now becomes us as chiropractors to assert our religious rights.

The practice of chiropractic involves a moral obligation and a religious duty.

By correcting these displacements of osseous tissue, the tension frame of the nervous system, I claim that I am rendering obedience, adoration and honor to the All-Wise Spiritual Intelligence, as well as a service to the segmented, individual portions thereof – a duty I owe to both God and mankind. In accordance with this aim and end, the Constitution of the United States and the statutes personal of California confer upon me and all persons of chiropractic faith the inalienable right to practice our religion without restraint or interference.

he basically took a course on osteopathy and thought "you can make a religion out of this"

[–] zweieuro@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

Tbh. I am not sure how 'chiropractic' differs to the German one. Over here its classified as 'alternative medicine' which technically is not school/book medicine.

Though I've had weird stinging back pain when I stretch for YEARS, and I went to a chiro. He pretty quickly figured out that some muscle is permanently tense but also stuck in that state due to pressing on a nerve due to tense-ness. Infiltrated the thing with some light anaesthetic, no more back pain, for years now i've been free of it.

How is this in the English tounge ? Over here it is actually pretty well regarded as a 'do this if book medicine can't help you besides cutting you open' which is a lot of medial cases. At least in my circle.

I am skeptical of just classifying something as a scam because its not book medicine. Acupuncture is technically not regarded as medicine over here. But you cannot deny it works, as a lot of Asien countries can absolutely, attest with years of history.

I've once been so extremly drunk that I could not stop puking or even remember it happening. A friend of mine can do acupuncture and she stuck it in my hand on a specific spot. I instantly stopped puking. Feels crazy though

[–] lime@feddit.nu 32 points 4 days ago (2 children)

the reason it's commonly accepted in germany is that germans as a rule love pseudoscience. naprapathy, reiki, radon caves, flower therapy, you name it. most pharmacies i've been to there stock homeopathic remedies.

basically the only thing osteopaths and chiropractors can do is treat back pain. and it's not permanent. the treatment can make you change the way you move because of soreness, so that you sort of fix the problem by yourself, but most people get told they need multiple sessions.

[–] OrganicMustard@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

I think it's a common thing in central Europe.

There is a big ayahuasca issue now where people wanting to get healed get scammed and hurt.

[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 days ago

Osteopathy is legit in comparison to chiropractice, but it needs to be an additional qualification you get on top after becoming a physiotherapist.

Source: speech therapist in training who's learned about the benefits of osteopathy in school plus a friend of mine who can attest to its benefit

Agree with the rest you said. You could assume that Germans would trust actual medicine more given that the vast majority have access to healthcare and can "afford" actual treatment, but most people who fall for these scams are desperate and uninformed, so they are easily manipulated.

[–] SwampYankee@feddit.online 16 points 4 days ago

Chiropractic in the US refers exclusively to the practice of musculoskeletal manipulation and "adjustment". Yanking on and twisting joints to get them back into the "right" position. It can work in specific circumstances, but can also further exacerbate some conditions. Someone who is only a chiropractor typically does not or is not allowed to administer invasive procedures such as the cortisone or lidocaine shot that I assume you got. That's reserved for actual doctors here. Sounds like the person you saw would be more likely be a physiatrist or physical therapist in the US.

Basically chiropractic is a separate education/licensing process, and requirements vary by state. Most states, for instance, don't require chiropractors to carry malpractice insurance. That means if they put you in a wheelchair, they declare bankruptcy and start a podcast or become a personal trainer or some shit, and you get to battle them in court while in crippling pain, and then max out your insurance deductible every year for the rest of your life. People who practice chiropractic may have additional qualifications and licenses allowing them to write prescriptions and do minor invasive procedures such as injections, but that's not too common.

[–] Rugnjr@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

The guy who invented chiropractic literally says he learned it from a ghost called Jim Atkinson. He also did "magnetic healing".

I went to a chiropractor as a kid because of back pain. They pretty quickly figured out it was because one of my legs was longer than the other, and did several adjustments to my back, next, and legs, none of which did very much. I was told to keep coming back and it would take time to work, and that if I stopped, the pain would come back. (Of course, this conveniently meant I would have to keep paying for sessions)

The words the guy was using about why things worked were utterly crackpot, including stuff about how adjustments or pressure applied in specific parts of the hands could affect parts of the gut or brain etc. about how my organs weren't getting enough nerve supply. All sorts of ridiculous charts on the walls showing things that I definitely knew weren't in the body.

I later figured out my back pain was because my schoolbag was too heavy. My legs are the same length as each other.

Oh and yes, I absolutely can and will deny that acupuncture works. It doesn't. It's all placebo, which is very powerful.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

As a kid I had a chiropractor diagnose me similarly. Specifically one leg had been longer and my body was used to it then the other leg had a growth spurt and was now the longer one. He showed me the difference, popped my back a few times and hooked up a TENS unit into my muscles (incidentally, that sounds so nice right now). Then after a few sessions I was fine and never went back.

I say all this because it was the best case scenario, it worked, by skill and integrity or dumb luck, I don't know which. This is the sort of experience we have to acknowledge and argue against when we argue against this profession, because the fact remains that they're quacks. At best some of them are mirroring modern medicine in the form of physiotherapy. But we can't know they're doing it well and good at it. Even the good ones share a profession with the quacks and provide cover for them.

[–] noodlejetski@piefed.social 4 points 4 days ago

Over here its classified as ‘alternative medicine’ which technically is not school/book medicine.

"alternative medicine" that is proven to work is usually called "medicine".

[–] zxqwas@lemmy.world 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Go one up them with homeopathic.

[–] lime@feddit.nu 7 points 4 days ago

homeopathic chiropractic is just reiki

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

After seeing John Oliver's latest episode, I can only add one thing to this topic:

🎵 I HAVE A STRUCTURED SETTLEMENT AND I NEED CASH NOW! 🎵

(apparently shit like JG Wentworth is basically a scam preying on people with literal brain damage)

[–] jaybone@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 days ago

I assume you sign over your monthly payments in exchange for a lump sum which is nowhere near what you would get over time, minus a bunch of fees. And then eventually you become poor and homeless because you didn’t manage your money appropriately.

Is it something other than that?

[–] compostgoblin@piefed.blahaj.zone 8 points 4 days ago

My wife is the smartest person I know, and she is a doctor herself. She has seen and heard all the information about how chiropractors are quacks. And yet I still can’t convince her to stop going. It’s maddening and mind-boggling.

[–] Bonsoir@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

In Canada, chiropractors need a 5-years diploma and to be member of a professional order to have the title. When the profession is protected it doesn't turn into a scam industry.

[–] MediumGray@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 days ago

It's still founded and based on utter bullshit which doesn't actually work beyond providing a placebo effect, so I'd argue it's actually worse that they get any sort of credibility in that way. A five year degree in baloney is still baloney.

[–] DrBob@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 days ago

I go to a chiro because I have a sticky SI joint and it's $20 cheaper at the chiro than it is for a physiotherapist to pop it loose. They don't touch my neck.

[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The core idea isn't a scam and it performs as well as traditional medicine.

https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l689

The problem it's unregulated, especially in the US, and chiros can basically do any bullshit they want under the name of chiropractic care and make any claim they want about the health benefits.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

"Some conditions benefit from a treatment in line with chiropractics" is wildly different from "the core idea isn't a scam and performs as well as traditional medicine".

That said, plenty of evidence it doesn't. There's plenty of evidence it can do real harm.

But the core idea of it is fucking nuts and I can't do it justice, so please peruse the Wikipedia article on the topic.

If you need physical manipulation of the bones, seek a physical therapist. They're bound to evidence based medicine.

[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

I think you're missing my point and I encourage you to read the study I posted, it's a pretty big and in depth meta analysis of a bunch of studies into SMT, which is what I'm describing as the core idea. Which shows it's just as effective as traditional physio and even has some advantages, it also looks at the risks and find most studies show only a small level of risk.

The problem is chiropractic isnt just SMT, they tack a bunch of addition bullshit onto it that doesn't actually do anything and many of them aren't actually trained properly in SMT. So if you were to just look at those chiropractors that aren't trained properly and do a bunch of extra pseudo science nonsense, yeah you can absolutely produce results that show it doesn't help or it's harmful. But the core concept SMT has strong evidence it's effective.

So instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater and just saying all chiropractic is nonsense, we should instead just regulate it more so that all chiropractors are trained properly in SMT and aren't allowed to practice unsafe treatments or pseudoscience.

me_irl