You can only lose that which is considered a privilege.
WomensStuff
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Emasculate originally meant to castrate so a feminine equivalent wasn’t necessary.
The word we’re looking for, from a linguistic / cultural usage standpoint is infantilized.
The uplifting side of this community is super nice, the “men suck let’s hate men let’s compare ourselves to men” part is real Icky.
Is pondering about the word "emasculate" and its etymology and modern usage the same as saying "men suck"?
No. I’m speaking about the general theme of much of the content posted here.
It’s very “compare to the other” instead of “lift us up”
Bit of an odd thing to bring up on this post then.
Can you share the post where we're comparing ourselves to men? I haven't seen such a discussion here.
I have seen some sensitive topics broached like abuse or no fault divorce be discussed, but I just scrolled through the last few weeks and can't find what you're referencing.
Did you mean to link to this same conversation that you just said wasn't an example?
This leads back to this post.
Edit: Unless you're thinking that talking about masculinity is the same as comparing ourselves to men?
Yes. This post is an example.
My no was to your interpretation of my meaning, you asked me a yes or no question to which I responded “no”
Edit: Unless you're thinking that talking about masculinity is the same as comparing ourselves to men?
I don’t read this as simply “talking about masculinity”, I’m not interested in changing how you read this because to be frank I don’t put much weight into your take or point.
This post isn't about women comparing ourselves to men or saying we hate men. It's a word nerd post more than anything.
You're more than welcome to ignore the posts that are talking about gender ideology and sexism if the points we're making go over your head.
I’m also more then welcome to comment on and call out posts that have a bend that gives the ick.
We both can feel free to fuck off is what you’re saying.
to be frank I don’t put much weight into your take or point.
You said it first.
I've been on this community for two years and have yet to see anyone say "men suck." I believe it's against the rules.
There are multiple definitions for emasculate, but they're specifically referring to a loss of masculinity here.
I think the comment was meant to sum up a sentiment, not as a quote.
Nope, they meant specific posts. This one included. There is no anti-men sentiment here, and if there is I would love to see examples.
This post is an example.
It starts by othering men, then comparing how their identity is an only a social construct and how silly is it that only men have this word.
Like, it directly does this.
Idk how anyone can see these posts and not recognize that?
“Only a man can …”
This reads like “men are silly and fragile lol look at them” instead of something uplifting.
There is a discussion that can be had about this that doesn’t necessitate othering anyone.
No it doesn't.
Masculinity is a social construct. And it varies across cultures, time and social groups.
Masculinity is not an identity. Male is an identity. Masculinity is a societal behaviour set.
No, you said that. It does not directly say that if you need to take a long walk to get to the point you're making. And repeatedly try to convince peoole that's what it says.
You and one other user (on multiple accounts) are actively arguing my point and you’re right you baited me into arguing with you when I ought not waste my time.
There are no examples. That user signaled to the men of Lemmy that they’re standing up against the evil misandrists in here and they’ve got their pats on the back now.
God forbid women and femmes have a space where we can talk about what we want without having to look over our shoulder for men and their opinions on our lives.
emasculate = less manly
effeminate = more womanly
???
The pivot point clearly being man.
What's funny is that both could include castration.
Interestingly, both are from the Latin prefix "ex-" plus gender. Apparently "ex-" can mean both "away from" or "thoroughly".
One is a verb, the other an adjective. Apples and oranges.
The analog to emasculate is defeminize.
One is the loss of an attribute and the other is gaining an attribute. Not quite the same thing since a loss of masculinity doesn't make one more feminine.
Unless you ask a man
Good thing this is a women's community, right? Hopefully one where we avoid over general and negative statements about men.
I don't think it's a negative statement to say that men's culture views losing masculinity as gaining femininity, just an observation. Certainly, I didn't mean that as an attack on men.
What would be a clearer way for me to express my viewpoint?
That is a negative statement and it is a poor and disengenuous way to frame men. There is no "men's culture" in the same way there is no "women's culture." Homogenizing male views is just as harmful as doing the same thing to women.
Only if you ignore that the word emasculation originally meant castration, and the modern use is still a metaphor for that. There might not be a female equivalent term because hysterectomy is a more modern procedure and much less common or acceessible.
Good points, and it actually leads us to the words "hysteria" and "hysterical," which were the words recently used to describe a (sexist and incorrect) emotional distress based on the possession of a uterus. Which would... kind of support, by being the inverse of, what OP is saying.
Julia Serano in Sexed Up and I believe before that de Beauvoir in Second Sex both discuss how generally femininity is almost defined as an absence of masculine qualities. In Serano's case, it's even about how we quickly judge a person's gender or sex based on certain characteristics and the way those are unevenly weighted - a beard / facial hair is more weighted as a gendered characteristic, and more likely to make someone see a man than breasts would make someone see a woman.
If I had more time I would pull out the relevant quotes from those works, but I do think if we are comparing the way we discuss emasculating in relation to castration and removal of genitals, I'm really not sure what similar concept or word we would have for when this is done to women, e.g. genital mutilation to remove the clitoris is not generally seen as removing female essence, whereas removing a man's testes or penis is more likely to be interpreted or understood as removing his masculine essence, or at the very least reducing how masculine he is.
Maybe part of this is even more practical: a man's sex hormones are produced by external organs that can be removed and which literally would make him less masculine, whereas a woman's sex hormones are produced by internal organs that are harder to remove. (Not to naturalize the social and political perspective, there are clearly arbitrary cultural values getting exposed here.)
Ooh, I think I might need to read these books ... fantastic comment BTW :-)
Defemistrated?
👏👏👏
Thats what happens when Putin gets rid of an old Mistress
Just start using the word emasculated to mean the undermining of anyone's identity, and it will lose its gendered connotations. You can't be emasculated if you are secure in your identity. Classically it has been used to re-enforce "masculinity" in those with insecurities by those who are insecure. Maybe this is a reflection of the fact that one of the tenets of masculinity is self assurance and security, which hasn't been as true for femininity. Femininity has different standards which get challenged through other kinds of social re-enforcement.
I like this line of thought. Women can certainly express masculine traits and vice versa. Let’s make it gender neutral.
I hate to say this, but I think the closest equivalent would be "de-flowering." A perceived loss at the value society expects from you.
There's "defeminize" or the more recent "defeminate."
If we take the other meanings of "emasculate":
In the sense of literal castration, there's "oöphorectomy"; in the sense of complete neutering (removal of penis and testicles) there's "spay."
In the sense of weakening or sapping energy... well, the meaning isn't gendered, but the morphology does follow the "male-as-norm" principle. I couldn't find a feminine gendered variation (at least, not in English), but this also doesn't appear to be the meaning that OP is referring to.
Whoever failed to coin defemistrate should be shot
What would a hateful shit call a woman who can't have kids, or is less "graceful" or "put together" than the "standard woman exemplar"?
I usually just hear that I’m broken or “not a real woman”. It’s usually just some dude being an asshole, but occasionally I get it from women too.
I’ve gotten the broken comment too
The list of names for women like that goes on and on….
Not sure if there’s a word that is equivalent to emasculate though. Defeminization maybe?
I would agree but the linguistically challenged part of me really wants it to be defemination even though that's probably the wrong suffix
It looks more correct!