From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
Two layers of "based on" in your OS is indeed a bit much.
Probably a good decision in the long run, their rational makes sense. Ubuntu's stubborn insistence on snap is poor decision making on their part.
I run Tuxedo as my daily driver and look forward to the more rolling release focused strategy.
Ubuntu in general I find tends to fixate on one particular thing that not many people are asking for (Unity, Mir, that "convergent phone" thing they were doing for a while, now Snaps) and let everything else stagnate until they get the thing to be almost decent, then they dump it and go chasing after the next shiny object.
I can see why it would be a bit troublesome to base a distro around. I assume that's why Mint keeps that LMDE version running as well.
Sucks it will take a fresh install, but the whole reason I switched from arch was stability with new feature parity.
I don't really have an issue with snap personally. The real problem is that their store doesn't integrate with Flatpack properly. So the whole thing just gets clunky
The snapstore is proprietary that's a no go.
i can't speak for that.. Or against it (I use fedora anyway). But, I would agree that snap is letting Ubuntu down at the moment, as there is a lot of good in ubuntu too
From a user side though, that's because the whole ubuntu/snap store thing is just clunky, even if we ignore who controls the store. Gnome Software and discover I find are more usable than Snap store. Cosmic will likely catch up too
And if you add snap support to the other package software, it becomes a mess
I will give them credit for trying these things though, and feel bad for them that Mir, bazaar and snap didn't really succeed
There's some other issues with how they handled snap as well. If you use apt to install Firefox for example, it won't install the native .deb by default, but silently install the snap version instead. People were rightfully mad a out that.
Also the fact that it's proprietary and (afaik) only supports canonicals own repository, make me not feel bad for them this failed. They explicitly made it so unlikeable.
Switching to something rolling release makes sense. My Arch setup (btw) has always felt much more stable than when I was using Ubuntu, because with Ubuntu I'd inevitatebly run into a bug, find out it was fixed months ago but won't be backported, and then either live with it or try custom-installing the newer version of that thing. Or I'd install something manually that expected dependency X be the latest version, etc.
That's exactly why I moved to Arch too...
I don't recall what it was, but the fixed upstream version had been around for months, so I just moved.
I've even helped report / triage bugs, and they've been fixed and appeared in updates, which gives a good feeling
When my Tuxedo Pulse arrived, I turned it on once to marvel at the fact that it started up straight into Linux. Then restarted it to install Arch btw and never looked back. Fantastic laptop, tho.
thinking of a new Tuxedo Lemur Pro or Framework 13Pro , still unsure. Framework seems to have the better screen?
I think you should check out the starbook horizon as well
Can't comment on the Lemur Pro, but the Pulse has an excellent screen. Was wanting more pixels than a 1080p screen but 4K incurs ridiculous cost and tends to be available on "laptops that don't fit on your lap". 2880x1800 @ 120 Hz means your fonts look really crisp and updates are smooth.
That's going to be good for all Debian users
Moving away from Ubuntu makes absolute sense from what they describe.
I do wonder though, is basing a distro on Debian Testing a good idea? I understand them not wanting to go to the Debian stable as they already have issues with big drift for the cutting edge tools they want to ship breaking have the unintended consequences of breaking stable software. But Debian Testing will add in a constant shift in all the packages; they may be more recent but there is a much greater exposure to bugs.
Tuxedo's OS will itself become a testing ground for packages in a way it wasn't before. They're both moving away from Ubuntu AND moving away from a LTS base. Though I suppose they can always re-base to Debian Stable at it's next big release if they do find it too cumbersome.
Still, I wonder if this will happen with other distros. I know Mint has a Debian flavour which is seemingly described as a backup "plan B" in-case they felt the need to shift. I can also see the constant forcing of Snap into the ecosystem, and now the vague AI stuff that Tuxedo quote would also prompt a lot of distros to decide how dependent should they be on Ubuntu going forward.
It sounds kinda like Tuxedo also wants to be Debian’s Fedora.
Ubuntu is moving to MIT and could pull a CentOS at any time.
The part that really calls my attention is the security aspect. I hope this was not overlooked but Debian testing receives delayed security patches compared to stable or even Sid.
The first one to jump ship. Many more to come.
Many distros are now based on Debian Testing. I feel like they could come together and maintain a shared stable base, similar to what Ubuntu used to be for them. Kinda like the Open Gaming Collective guys did for their kernel development.
While I wouldn't want my system to be Debian Testing, I'm pretty happy that more people are testing sid.
That'll be good for all of us.
Yeah, the Testing repo is an odd choice... but I guess still much better than Ubuntu by now...
Natural selection.
Of course, this is why I'm using MX Linux, it's Debian based. systemd optional, no snap, no flatpak, stable.
This is the first post/reply in the wild about someone who uses MX Linux. I'm searching you guys for years, even though this distribution was on the top of Distrowatch for years.
I tried MX for a while. It was alright but not the distro for me beyond that short period of time. I'm glad it exists but a bit mystified at how it ended up topping the charts.
Distrowatch just lists the most popular pages that got the most clicks on Distrowatch itself. We (and I mean random few people on internet and YouTube and elsewhere) have theories it could be a few users or a bot who wants to see the distribution on top, doing the clicks. Or its legit clicks off course. In example if a distribution have a bad documentation or website, or its not that well known and people want learn more about it with detailed information, I mean Distrowatch is not a bad place to start looking.
I saw someone else recently.
My guess is that AI was convinced by Distrowatch fuckery that it was #1, it recommended it to people, and then it actually started getting used by real people
Best distro ever, stable, Xfce4
systemd optional, no snap, no flatpak, stable.
systemd optional, ~~no~~ optional snap, ~~no~~ optional flatpak, stable.
With Debian nearly everything is optional.
Is Mint planning the same? I know they have their debian edition, but don't remember of it was meant to become the main edition at some point.
I think it's just a proof of concept in case they feel the need to switch the base. I didn't head anything indicating that's the case already
Probably. It is good as a backup though, they have options this way, if they decide Ubuntu isn't a suitable base anymore, they already have things in motion.
It won't happen any time soon unless Ubuntu does something drastic. I do think it would be a good idea for them to move in that direction, though.
It does make sense, though i think you're right, and they won't unless Ubuntu does something to force them. Ubuntu has lost so much good grace from the community. I remember the times it was basically the go to distro, and now a lot of comments are recommending not giving it a try.
Interesting. They are concerned about security updates delay, but then there is this: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-manual/ch10.en.html#security-support-testing
Basically, it says that testing gets security updates later than stable and unstable.
This seems like slop for all the Ubuntu haters, but i agree moving to testing isn't a good sign.
TBH while I like the hardware of my laptop, I've been pretty unimpressed by the software that Tuxedo provide.
While i appreciate not having snaps by default, the control center they ship is an electron app that requires /tmp be executable out of the box, and talks to a backend daemon that wasn't particularly secure by default, and both live in /opt despite coming from the distro itself, so I think it's ironic when people engage in technical sneering while throwing stones from within their glasshouses.
Also boot security doesn't seem to be a priority for them out of the box, this seems like what they should focus on IMO, instead of switching their base
✘ CET OS Support: Unknown ✘ Linux kernel lockdown: Disabled ✘ Linux kernel: Tainted ✘ UEFI secure boot: Disabled
That it's good enough as a distro, although I'll probably just switch to neon if Tuxedo move to a rolling release base.
The thing is Neon could die at any moment thanks to KDE Linux.
Using debsecan to pull security updates from sid and experimental is trivial to setup.
Why not go with SID then?
Can one adopt Debian SID and automate this? I mean, how difficult would it be for a person not looking to create and maintain a distro but use Debian SID and pull the latest and greatest security patches?
Good decision. Ubuntu is a highly complex and specific all-in-one distribution never meant for customization.
Don't know about using a Debian Testing base, just because the word "testing" does not inspire confidence.
Ever heard of Sid from Toy Story?