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submitted 11 months ago by Mrkawfee@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

A top lawyer for Twitter owner Elon Musk says the platform has "serious concerns" that Facebook parent Meta hired "dozens of former Twitter employees" in order to build its new "copycat" Threads app — accusations that Meta denies.

In a Wednesday letter addressed to Meta Platforms CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP partner Alex Spiro, a longtime lawyer for Musk and his businesses, notified the rival tech executive that Twitter's new parent company plans "to strictly enforce its intellectual property rights."

Spiro asserted that in rolling out its Threads social media app, which launched Wednesday, Meta relied on the work of "dozens of former Twitter employees" who "have improperly retained Twitter documents and electronic devices."

"With that knowledge, Meta deliberately assigned these employees to develop, in a matter of months, Meta's copycat 'Threads' app with the specific intent that they use Twitter's trade secrets and other intellectual property in order to accelerate the development of Meta's competing app," the letter said.

In April, Twitter was hit with a proposed class action from former employees following Musk's $44 billion deal to take the company private.

Competition is fine, cheating is not

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 6, 2023In response to reports of the letter, Musk wrote in a Twitter post, "Competition is fine, cheating is not."

"Twitter has serious concerns that Meta Platforms has engaged in systematic, willful and unlawful misappropriation of Twitter trade secrets and other intellectual property," Spiro wrote.

In addition to alerting the company of the prospect of a lawsuit, Spiro's letter asserted that Meta is "expressly prohibited from engaging in any crawling or scraping of Twitter's followers or following data."

The letter did not specify which former Twitter employees Meta had allegedly assigned to its Threads development team or what intellectual property Meta purportedly misappropriated, outside of "trade secrets and other highly confidential information."

Aggressive enforcement of intellectual property rights is a bit of a change for Musk, who in 2014 announced that his electric car company, Tesla, would open up its patents to other manufacturers interested in using its technology. As recently as last year, during an appearance on the CNBC show "Jay Leno's Garage," Musk declared that "patents are for the weak."

Meta spokesman Andy Stone responded to Spiro's claims in a post on Threads, saying that "no one on the Threads engineering team is a former Twitter employee."

"That's just not a thing," Stone said.

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[-] nlogn@lemmy.world 183 points 11 months ago

First he fires almost all Twitter employees, some even almost without warning, and then he complains that Meta has hired them to develop Threads.

There's no getting around it, Musk has only led to the failure of what was, in part, one of the social networks with great potential.

[-] RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip 64 points 11 months ago

Well if what the guy said is true and nobody from twitter is working on it that should be exceedingly easy to prove. Elon will get creamed in court and have even less money than he did before. Let’s keep that train rolling. Dude thinks he’s fucking Jesus Christ. He’s just a little bitch boy that used daddy’s seed money and got insanely lucky with PayPal . That’s it.

[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 29 points 11 months ago

People want Musk and Zuck to battle in the octagon. I want them to battle out it in court, all the way down to the last penny. It would be the greatest wealth transfer to lawyers ever.

[-] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 18 points 11 months ago

Why not both? Imagine a cage in the courtroom and Elon and Zuck delivering testimonies between the rounds.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

I hope Zuckerberg takes Musk up on the dick-measuring contest because I want the world to know that neither of them are as well-endowed as they think they are.

[-] tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 13 points 11 months ago

TBH I think threads owes more to instagram than twitter.. which makes total sense given that Meta owns both. They even share user lists.. The similarity with twitter is they're both primarily text based..

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[-] DoctorTYVM@lemmy.world 47 points 11 months ago

Dude was making fun of the people he fired on twitter, mocking people who weren't sure they still had a job.

I hope they took every trade secret they had.

[-] wolfylow@lemmy.world 113 points 11 months ago

Even if the former Twitter engineers were working on Threads - so what?

I have had to demonstrate relevant skills and experience for every job I’ve ever applied for (beyond junior/trainee). This is just how the world works.

It’s almost like Musk doesn’t understand how enormously normal it is to use skills and experience gained in one job when you go to the next one.

And it’s not like Twitter has special IP - it’s a fairly straightforward system; the only difficulty is scale which Meta will already know all about.

[-] anteaters@feddit.de 74 points 11 months ago

Smells like the idiotic "poaching" concept in which companies think they have a right to their employees and their skills. Musk fired people like a dumbass who then found new jobs working on something they have experience in. What did he think would happen? Everybody goes back to the money their families' emerald mines shed out?

[-] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago

"Poaching", because to them competing in the free market is bad when workers do it apparently.

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[-] dismalnow@kbin.social 23 points 11 months ago

It's about the same as a mafia hitman screeching in court after a guilty verdict that he wants the written receipts, and murder weapons that were found in the garbage on the curb in front of his home (and used to convict him) back.

ThAt'S mY pRoPeRtY!

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[-] TheBeege@lemmy.world 91 points 11 months ago

The core features of Twitter aren't rocket science, and Meta already knows how to scale. Computer science students often build tiny scale Twitter clones as a portfolio project. Another shitty take from Musk

[-] Laser@feddit.de 32 points 11 months ago

Yeah, it's almost comical. Facebook has more users than Twitter, more features and more content to manage. Their own product Instagram is basically a superset of Twitter afaik (I use neither though). Even if anything Musk said is true, Facebook/Meta would be fully in the right to hire engineers Twitter just fired; no-compete-clauses are illegal in their jurisdiction. I think.

[-] glorious_albus@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago

How would a no compete even work in this scenario?

"I fired you but you cannot take a job in another social media company" hardly makes sense.

[-] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 11 months ago

No competes are also non binding in California, where Twitter HQ is.

[-] tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 11 points 11 months ago

That's literally what I no compete says, nonsensical as it sounds.

I had one in a contract that said I'm not allowed to work for any competitors or suppliers for 5 years. Totally unenforceable, likely illegal.

And since we regularly sent out for pizza, that means theoretically I couldn't even work for pizza hut...

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It's understandable when you realize it's included as boilerplate in most tech employment contracts. Very few employees outside of the Executive Suite can actually negotiate their contracts. So it would seem like employers are free to throw in whatever language they want, for everyone from the CEO down to the junior dev, and if a low level employee doesn't like it, their only option is to not take the job.

But courts (particularly in California, where I bet most of these people are based) take a dim view of one-sided contract provisions like this. My understanding is that this language is unenforceable in California. If an employee legitimately did take confidential information or a trade secret to a competitor, that is enforceable, whether or not they left to work for that competitor. But the history of Silicon Valley is full of disgruntled techies who left a stifling job to start up the Next Big Thing. It's in California's best interest to encourage techies to migrate from one job to another freely (provided they still respect the confidentiality of both places)

Still, companies continue to include it, in the hopes that if they ever have to invoke it they get a sympathetic judge.

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[-] rustyfish@lemmy.world 64 points 11 months ago

You fired them. What were they supposed to do? Die in poverty? Have you had to work a day in your life?

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[-] xc2215x@lemmy.world 53 points 11 months ago

They are allowed to legally.

[-] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 52 points 11 months ago

Good luck enforcing that non-compete after firing 80% of your engineers Elon. I'd be really surprised if this holds any kind of water when it makes it to court.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 23 points 11 months ago

Fewer than 2000 employees still work at Twitter, out of roughly 7500 who were present before the company's go-private deal.

Lay off more than 2/3 of your staff, you expect them all to spend their time waiting outside your office begging you to let them back, Elon?

You didn't need them anymore at Twitter. They don't need you now, and they won't need any "Twitter trade secrets" to make a platform that is even a bit improved.

[-] AbackDeckWARLORD@sh.itjust.works 21 points 11 months ago

Good luck enforcing that non-compete

Can't even enforce it anyways because it's not enforceable in California, where twitter is based.

[-] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 21 points 11 months ago

Sometimes it's nice to be reminded that California isn't always the regulatory hell-hole it's being made out to be by pundits. Non-competes are BS and I am happy California recognises this.

[-] BitingChaos@lemmy.world 43 points 11 months ago

When Elon fired all those people, he showed that he clearly did not care about them as either humans or as a valuable company resource.

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[-] Shotgun_Alice@lemmy.world 41 points 11 months ago

Yeah, I would also go looking for a job that fits my experience if I was fired too. Dude played himself on this one.

[-] phillycodehound@lemmy.world 39 points 11 months ago

And Musk fired them without due cause and didn't give them their severance. Soooooo what's the issue?

[-] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 37 points 11 months ago

Poor little Musk. Dump your employees on the street and they just might be hired by your competitors.

[-] Kushia@lemmy.ml 33 points 11 months ago

The free market is great!

No, not like that!

[-] echo64@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago

Imagine if Bridge Company A sued Bridge Company B, for hiring a Bridge Builder that Bridge Company A previously fired

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago

It's stupider than that. It's Bridge Company A suing Bridge Company B for hiring the guy who said where the rivets should go on bridge A to say where the rivets should go on bridge B.

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[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

So you fired a ton of engineers unnecessarily, and then you're surprised and upset when they get jobs with the competition? This is literally how capitalism and Musk's "free speech absolutism" are supposed to work.

Everything this dude says and does is in bad faith.

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[-] paddirn@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago

Yes, because Facebook clearly has no prior experience working on a revolutionary social media platform that can only display 280 characters per post. That advanced technology is decades ahead of everybody else and would not have been doable without Twitter's IP being stolen.

[-] samokosik@lemmynsfw.com 22 points 11 months ago

I honestly wish both platforms just die

[-] atyaz@reddthat.com 16 points 11 months ago

While I never really loved twitter, I do think at one time it was useful to many, so it's a setback that it's being gutted. But at this point I think it's best that it's put out of its misery and replaced with mastodon. People need to get on a system that can't be bought by a billionaire and ruined.

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[-] twelve@sh.itjust.works 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
  1. Fire people without knowing anything about the business, just for feeling powerful
  2. People go working for competition (it turns out employers don't own employees for life)
  3. Competition is advantaged by the know how of these people
  4. Be mad
  5. Lawyers come with the idea that ex employees retained company property (because, again, you don't own the person). Something either very stupid from Twitter to not ask for corporate equipment or blantly false
  6. ...
  7. Profit (yes, he will profit anyway 🤷)
[-] spriteblood@kbin.social 11 points 11 months ago

Don't forget:

1.5. Spend a fair amount of time mocking the people you fired across interviews and social media, and suggesting their work/abilities have no value

He spent plenty of time on thr "Fuck around" path, and is unhappy where it leads.

Also I think the Meta stance is that Threads doesn't have any former Twitter employees on staff, but who knows if that's true.

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

IRC Musk also fired much of Twitter's legal department. I wouldn't be surprised if meta hired plenty of them too, so they know where the bodies are buried.

This isn't the first time Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan have been involved in proceedings against Zuckerberg. I assume he's more prepared this time around.

But Musk will likely get a settlement out of it. That's simply how the world works. Shit floats.

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[-] dangblingus@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

Musk certainly cries like a little bitch far too often to have faith in him as CEO of 10 companies. Isn't being CEO of 1 company a full time job?

[-] zeppo@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

He is a great demonstration that CEOs are overpaid douchebags who don’t really do anything. Being CEO of Tesla, spacex, neuralink, Twitter and spending hours a day jerking off as a regular user at Twitter… wtf does he do for those other companies?

[-] mrmanager@lemmy.today 17 points 11 months ago

Typical Elon :) The guy cheats and lies routinely but cries when someone else does it. What's up with billionaries having no self relection whatsoever... Maybe it's built into them and part of why they think of themselves so highly.

[-] atyaz@reddthat.com 14 points 11 months ago

I would call this cheating. It's anti-competitive behavior to prevent another company from building a product similar to yours. The irony is they never would have done it if he hadn't destroyed twitter lol

[-] 0235@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

When musk hired ex NASA or VW employees 👍

When other companies hire ex twitter / Tesla staff 😡😤😡

[-] ancientweasel@social.fossware.space 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah because Twitter is something that any group of talented engineers couldn't replicate in a year.

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[-] RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Musk: You're fired ... NO NOT LIKE THAT

[-] dbilitated@aussie.zone 11 points 11 months ago

that's probably the most positive thing i've heard about threads so far. good work, elon.

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[-] BrainisfineIthink@lemmy.one 11 points 11 months ago

This is stupid on so many levels but fuck it, LET THEM FIGHT

[-] poss@lemmy.fmhy.ml 10 points 11 months ago

The irony. From his just-announced x.ai company website:

"We have previously worked at DeepMind, OpenAI, Google Research, Microsoft Research, Tesla, and the University of Toronto."

[-] Tetra@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

I wonder where Meta found all those former Twitter employees, mmmmmmh 🤔🤔🤔

[-] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You mean the guys that ran away when you took over Twitter and made it a hellhole?

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this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
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