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[-] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 206 points 7 months ago

Evolutionary biologist here.

I know this is a recurring meme, and it does have a basis in truth. However, in my opinion, it vastly overemphasizes a single aspect of early humans at the expense of other and more important distinct human qualities (and I’m using this term to also refer to our closely related species and ancestors).

First, the real distinction is sociality. Humans are the most cooperative species of hominid. As someone once said, you will never see two chimpanzees carrying a log together. This translates into being able to coordinate efficient hunting practices in a variety of ecosystems.

Second, and very related, is social learning. Other species can also exhibit social learning, but never to the degree humans do. Most species figure out things in evolutionary time - what counts as food, what counts as danger, the best way to do X, etc. Humans do it daily and pass it on to each other. We learn to kill prey by setting fires in grasslands. We develop tools and teach each other how to make and use them. These are all interlocking effects. The bigger our brains get, the more helpless our babies are, so the more we need societies, which creates increasingly complex social dynamics, which rewards more complex brains, and so on.

In short, it’s intelligence and social learning replacing learning in evolutionary time that made humans successful, possibly to the point of self destruction.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 72 points 7 months ago

possibly to the point of self destruction.

Ah, an optimist

[-] lanolinoil@lemmy.world 45 points 7 months ago

As someone once said, you will never see two chimpanzees carrying a log together.

Such a great point that really drives home just how much we cooperate and take it for granted.

[-] SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 7 months ago

And then people say competition is what makes society go around.

Nah, cooperation is the core of everything we do, and we should embrace it as much as possible.

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[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 41 points 7 months ago

I'd also argue that our ability to accurately throw things to a reliable degree plays a huge part in our success as a species.

As far as I'm aware we're one of the only species capable of accurately throwing things with consistency.

[-] Enk1@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago

More broadly, we developed more slow twitch muscles that granted us greater fine motor skills, and subsequently the ability to create and use tools. Other apes retained their fast twitch muscles, so their ability to use tools is limited, but pound-for-pound they're FAR stronger than humans.

[-] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

I agree. I don’t know that I’d rank it quite as high as some other factors if we’re trying to find some function for “causal elements for human ecological success” or something like that, but there’s no doubt it was selected for and the degree to which we are good at it is a good indicator of its importance. Good call.

[-] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 12 points 7 months ago

This was a very cool and eloquent explanation. Thank you!

[-] Jackinopolis@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago

How much does sleep and dreaming contribute to this? Have you looked into how humans dream compared to other animals? Any papers to point to?

[-] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

That’s a fascinating question. I am not sure about animal research on dreaming, but Thomas Metzinger is an experimental philosopher (for want of a better term) who studies the basis of the concept of the self as a coherent entity, and his work includes extensive research on phenomena like lucid dreaming, phantom limbs, and out of body experiences. I’m not talking about anything paranormal - there’s conditions under which people’s experience of perception and self become separated from our ordinary experience of “my self is sitting behind my eyeballs.” He collaborates closely with experimental psychologists and neuroscientists, so between his work and references you might be able to see if there’s a correlation.

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[-] Asifall@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

Interesting, I admit that I didn’t realize until I just did a little research that persistence hunting as a significant feature in early humans isn’t actually well supported by much if any evidence.

Are there other theories on why humans seem to be almost uniquely good at distance running? Is it a spandrel?

[-] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

That’s a fantastic question!

There’s archeological evidence that modern humans were far more mobile than we have generally assumed (see eg David Graeber), but we’re talking 10-20k years ago there, which is very recent in evolutionary time where we’d be talking about physical adaptations.

SJ Gould, who was the origin of the spandrel idea, warned frequently against telling “just so” stories to try to reverse engineer the processes of selection that led to this or that feature. However, I do think that the hominid physique enabled multiple things. It has been observed that you won’t ever see a spider or octopus or dolphin moving fire from one place to another. That’s something that bipeds are able to do, and fire is one of the things we think was a key development. It’s the same with generalized tool use. So we can see there may have been multiple selection pressures leading towards bipedalism.

If distance running were truly a spandrel, we’d have to say that it was a consequence of these selective pressures giving rise to the body plan, but wasn’t itself selected for. I’d be more conservative on that one, and hazard a guess that distance running (or efficiency in long distance movement) was also a selective pressure. I just don’t think the evidence is there to say that it was the dominant one at that time.

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[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 111 points 7 months ago

Mom! Look what I can do! profusely sweats

[-] RockAndGnome@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

"stop shedding hair young man!"

[-] random_character_a@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

...I also smell profusely like musky urine.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 15 points 7 months ago

It isn't polite to brag, sweetie.

[-] InfiniWheel@lemmy.one 85 points 7 months ago

Humanity's secret weapon: power walking

[-] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 41 points 7 months ago
[-] bastian_5@sh.itjust.works 8 points 7 months ago

And throwing shit very well

[-] eezeebee@lemmy.ca 31 points 7 months ago
[-] qooqie@lemmy.world 60 points 7 months ago

It’s a fucking horror movie trying to run from something like that

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 20 points 7 months ago

The snail is terrifying.

You get lots of wealth, but a magic snail is trying to find you. If it touches you, you die.

You cannot track or kill or permanently trap it, it is constant moving towards you.

Something like that

[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 13 points 7 months ago

Snail takes a 1.3 days to crawl a mile, 280 miles a year. With a huge amount of wealth you can just move to the otherside of the country or ocean every 6 or 7 years.

[-] GBU_28@lemm.ee 14 points 7 months ago

The snail is intelligent and understands transportation.

Still take the deal?

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[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

I can't permanently trap it, so I can put it in a safe that opens after like 1000 years?

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[-] RockAndGnome@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

*Halloween music gets more intense

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[-] lugal@sopuli.xyz 29 points 7 months ago

Speak for yourself! I get tired easily

[-] RockAndGnome@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago

It's ok, I saved you some Mammoth.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 12 points 7 months ago

I just woke up and I'm so tired.

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[-] threeduck@aussie.zone 25 points 7 months ago

Hey who you calling primit-

Primittititiv-...

HOO

HOOOO HOOO HAA HAAAAAA

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[-] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 24 points 7 months ago

I dunno if a thrown spear counts as “short range” in a primitive world

[-] HikingVet@lemmy.ca 25 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Atlatls are over 20000 y/o and are futher range than just spears.

Bow and arrows show up in the archaeological record ~70000 years ago.

So, yeah both those are longer range than spears and predate writing and use of most metals.

So if you consider pre bronze age primitive; yes spears are short range.

[-] Stache_@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Heck, slings were around even before bow and arrows and can definitely be considered long range

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[-] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

They recently discovered evidence that the atlatl was used 30,000 years ago.

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[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago

"That Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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[-] ZeroXHunter@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

Let's not kid ourselves, the real reason is the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

[-] grey@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 7 months ago

And then somebody invented the idea of THROWING a rock and suddenly the game of earth is SOLVED.

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this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
909 points (98.2% liked)

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