doesn't everyone kinda do that already? on every interview I always try to get a hint on how it is to work there... and if the vibes are not there I just stop.

Once I was getting weird vibes in an interview, there was one "boss" and two "engineers" (quotes because they were probably all engineers, just that the roles were quite clear) and I interrupted the interview to ask the engineers "are you happy working there?" and they basically didn't answer with words, but their faces were very transparent... so yeah, I didn't "call them back" lol (or rather the next time they did I turned them down)

normally I'm a bit more subtle though.

No shit, during interviews one of my go to questions is why is this elrole empty? New hire or backfill? Did the person put in their notice? If they're still here... Can I talk to them?

Almost always got straight answers, and they actually had me meet the person leaving.

You absolutely can and should.

Entry level, probably will get denied.

But if you're applying to management or significant roles that are typically hired slow, you absolutely should ask to talk with other employees.

LoL, one time, amusing myself, when I was handing my ID over to the Bouncer at the Bar, I thought, I should ask for his ID. Dude got seriously upset at the request.

The "do you have any questions for us" part of the interview is the opportunity to get a feel for the company if you hadn't had it already, if you're past the stage of HR boxcheckers and talking to people in and around the team you'll actually be working with.

If you're in that industry already, then you'll get to know enough people who aren't quiet about their experiences at other companies, good or bad.

I would also like to talk to 3 of their unhappy employees.

I'm an employer and I absolutely do suggest talking to my employees to my candidates

I have been through a few interviews in developer jobs. Typically I am put through a conversation with HR, then someone representing the leadership, then a couple of developers. In each conversation I'm highly encouraged to ask questions.

So in my opinion, the employers are extremely firm with pushing their references upon me.

Jobs that ask for references should be prohibited from having a "no references" policy. That is to say if you ask for references, you must also give references when asked.

um... that's the interview process. you most likely already do. well maybe not happy per se ... point stands though.

Not sure how reliable they are but rate my employer type websites do exist:

https://www.ratemyemployer.ca/Home

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/index.htm

https://indeed.com/companies

Honestly neither direction really makes sense. You'd have to be one hell of a bad candidate not to be able to come up with three people that will positively talk about you. Likewise it would have to be an incredibly s*** job for them not to be able to find three people in the company that wouldn't speak well to it.

The whole point of references is absolutely ridiculous.

Just bring them in for half a day, spend half the time figuring out if they can do the job, spend the other half the time having them mingle with everyone. Women, men, straight, LHBTQ+. Take them out to lunch, make sure you have some people there that aren't super thick-skinned in the crowd.

If a decent sized crew of your people can't figure out if they're an asshole in 4 hours chances are they're not an asshole.

I’ve done a lot of tech recruiting. Reference checks are invaluable, especially if you do them over the phone (instead of email/text).

People are wired to be honest, even about the faults of their friends. Tone of voice, pauses and side comments are often the most useful parts.

By the time you’re checking references you’re not normally trying to determine if the candidate is psycho or incompetent, you’re trying to figure out the specifics. Are they going to be a good fit for the team? How will they handle the stresses, structures, or freedoms of the role? What kind of support are they likely to need and can the team realistically provide it?

And to OP, yes. Absolutely, ask to meet with employees. Ask the hard questions, you’ll probably get surprisingly candid responses.

You absolutely should. It's easy to find people by company on LinkedIn.

Please enter you credit card details... no, you show me yours first

Anyone that says "jobs be asking" is right off my list if candidates.