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this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2024
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Showerthoughts
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counterargument; malls, arcades, and bookstores should come back in style because they were amazing and we don't know what we missed until it's gone.
Malls are sign of bad ciry planning
They will come back as the US shifts away from car centered culture, malls thrive in Europe
You have arcades in Europe?
Yes
How will shifting away from cars result in more people going to the mall? How are you supposed to get there?
Well optimally you have 2 legs, you could use those, also public transport.
Video with more info https://youtu.be/586SO9-wWoA?si=SL-vnIV14DPwFH9I
It's called number eleven
It will just be delivered.
Well ofc, Europe doesn't have delivery invented yet, that's the difference between the us and europe
Some day.
I'm not clicking that link, you left your SI in it. Google is gonna track me if I click on that.
They track you in a million other ways, what do you care anyway.
Well, that kind of tracking data can be used to influence elections and other such deeds, as Cambridge Analytica showed us. I don't want megacorps to have that much power over people.
And yes, it can be done in the US as well, and not just in cities. I think our similar touchpoint in the US is “Main Street”. Guess what: they still exist in a few places.
Time to brag about my town. We have a town center with a Common, transit hub, library, post office, government buildings. Most importantly we have a nice walkable street with shops and restaurants. As was tradition, the lots are in back, but there are also higher density housing so many people are just there and all the buses, taxis, Ubers, bicycles, scooters, and even canoe rentals center on that area so there’s transit.
During COViD when we couldn’t go to places with a lot of people, this became much bigger. My family wasn’t the only one that developed a new tradition of walking at the Common and along the street, eating outside, or grabbing takeout from one of the many Ethnic restaurants to eat at a bench on the Common
By subway. By bus. By bike. Walking. The world by and large doesn't revolve around cars. How do you think Europeans get there?
Public transport...and their countries are small as fuck. The amount of people who think the USA is the same size as European countries is hilarious. Most states are the size of a few eu countries.
Yeah, so? Are you going to a mall in the next state or what? Public transport connects suburbs and cities. You're not supposed to take the subway from Chicago to your favorite mall in Seattle, just like no European takes a bus from Amsterdam to go shopping in Brussels.
Yes, that's what Europeans don't understand about America. When we go to, say, Wal Mart, there's only one. We have to go to Bentonville, AR. Not so bad for us here in the Midwest, but the residents of Alaska have it particularly tough. And since you go to Wal Mart to pick up milk, we can't go by public transport. It has to be by car, or better yet, drive the Canyonero. (No train schedule can predict when the milk runs out!)
The country is so big, and we have so much empty land, there's just simply no room to build more stores near where people live. What kind of madness would that be?!
How about YOU predicting when milk runs out? I'm not asking you to do five-year plan, but it's easy to know when milk will run our.
Russia is bigger and has more empty land. Despite Putin's idiocy with invading other country.
Ha, I thought that the blatant contradiction about having too much space and therefore not enough space would make the joke obvious, but I guess not.
Also, a Canyonero isn't a real vehicle. It was a joke from The Simpsons.
The joke was obvious, and you even doubled down by suggesting people intentionally go to Bentonville. I appreciated it
I just ignored that part because of it
Nope but the nearest mall to me is 2 hours drive. No one is building rails out into the smaller counties. The USA is massive. I've lived in Europe, its a lot smaller, and people still have cars. Not saying this couldn't work for cities but people forget how spread out we are here in the usa.
Have you considered that this is because most of space in USA is allocated only for cars? Or that if this space wasn't allocated to cars, then you wouldn't need to traverse such disyance in first place?
The solution: trains
Look I'm not arguing that we shouldn't be putting in trains as much as possible but it's not a solution to cars. Hell in Europe people still drive a good bit.
The solution is not living in the middle of anywhere, two hours away from civilization. If you lived next to the mall, you could go there by foot.
You know why houses in populated areas cost so much?
That's why, everyone wanting to be right next to everything.
I live where I do because I don't like crowds, and noise.
Maybe I’m biased living in a “European” part of the US, but it can translate very well to our country. the problem is not that the place is large, but so many places are suburban or trying to keep that rural feel, yet you want massive warehouse stores for everyday shopping. Everything wants to be its own destination, so there is no real concentration of snything
But every town can have a center where common areas are common. Every town can have a center with whatever shops and restaurants. Every town of every size can have some things in a higher density area that’s walkable. In our mythology, we call it “Main Street, USA” and look back at it as a long gone ideal, but it’s still a useful concept, still around in some places, and can be re-created. In my towns case it did well focussing on restaurants, because you can’t ft a Costco or modern grocery there. But there’s also a library, small movie theater, town Common. All the buses run there, and you can find taxis, bicycles or scooters, a nice river walk,etc. it also has a concentration of apartments and condos, so there are always people around
The rest of the entire world is a teeny bit larger than the US, but they still manage to do public transport just fine, for the most part.
Besides Europe and Japan....no they really don't.
Well, Russia is a European country. Also Russia is largest country in the world.
Russia also has shit public transportation because of its size.
Nah, corruption.
That's a totally fair assessment as well.
If they come back, I hope they will be more accessible on foot, with a bike, or with efficient public transit. Because if they are still surrounded by deserts of parking lots, only filled with EVs instead of ICEs, they can continue to die.
If parts of it become residential like OP suggested, then it'll be accessible by foot.
It's already a problem if they are not in the city center, as it sucks out business from the center and creates more traffic.
In my country (and I think most of Europe) malls (especially those in more central areas) have underground parking, or limited above-ground parking. There is a really nice one which is connected to a big park in the back. So maybe you can replace the parking lots with apartment buildings, recreational spaces and transit infrastructure and maybe include some underground parking.