the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

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Denying a thing that happened over the course of a day that isn’t well documented ≈ Denying the most documented crime against humanity to ever happen that commenced across half-a-decade (hexbear.net)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by WhyEssEff@hexbear.net to c/the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net

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Terminally unserious understanding of history and scale, the comparison in-and-of-itself trivializes the Holocaust i-do

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[–] pooh@hexbear.net 61 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Obligatory: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist

I also did my own research on this awhile back, and what I found was:

There was no massacre in the square or anywhere else, full stop.
There was violence elsewhere in the city, but it wasn't as one sided as western media would likely portray and several soldiers were killed by rioters in addition to civilians killed.
The official numbers of dead and wounded likely at least comes close to the official data released.
The CIA was involved in pushing the protests, and then helped the protest leaders escape after the fact. In other words, it wasn't just ordinary Chinese people protesting.
There were legitimate grievances that helped fuel the protests. This also included many who were upset about China's policies around economic liberalization and the problems that created, which flies in the face of the western narrative.
There's room for criticism regarding how it was handled, but again there's no serious evidence that any "massacre" took place and there's also evidence of intent to avoid violence in many cases.

Again, this is what I arrived at, but feel free to chime in if any of this is wildly wrong.

[–] lumpiangshawarma@hexbear.net 32 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Wasn't it a mix of a Maoist(collective workers who want to return from pre-Deng reforms) and liberal(economic free trade supporter students who want to move China post-Deng reforms and go to neoliberalism) protestors at the scene.

The problem with the color revolutions angle sometimes is that it reduces the role the masses play in the the protest who want real change. The CIA co-opts everything it has within reach.

Edit: Ah, read your fifth bullet point.

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 34 points 2 years ago

There were a lot of different groups, especially early on. There were even some people seemingly protesting the admission of African students to Chinese universities (there was a banner reading "protect Chinese women", a slogan used at a more focused reactionary protest not long prior)

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think "insurgents" is more appropriate than rioters. They ambushed unarmed PLA troops with molotovs and burned them alive in their trucks and APCs, then egaged the PLA with guns.

Afaik the CIA contingent was very small and the overwhelming majority of students were protesting the Deng government's liberalization of the market. THere was also a social component - They wanted more social freedom to date and generally be kids, and felt that the very strict traditional expectations put on them were not in line with Communist thought.

[–] pooh@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Afaik the CIA contingent was very small and the overwhelming majority of students were protesting the Deng government's liberalization of the market.

These are some of the sources for my claim about CIA involvement that I dug up on newspapers.com:

I think you're right, but it definitely seems like the "student pro-democracy" leaders were in cahoots with the CIA. Here's more info on the CIA op to help them escape law enforcement after the fact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

Also as an unrelated bonus, here's a great "stupid sexy Fidel" article from I think 1959 or 1960 that I also found on the newspapers site: