175
Average Day in Ukraine Part II
(hexbear.net)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
175 points (100.0% liked)
the_dunk_tank
15918 readers
3 users here now
It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
Rule 3: No sectarianism.
Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome
Rule 5: No ableism of any kind (that includes stuff like libt*rd)
Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.
Rule 7: Do not individually target other instances' admins or moderators.
Rule 8: The subject of a post cannot be low hanging fruit, that is comments/posts made by a private person that have low amount of upvotes/likes/views. Comments/Posts made on other instances that are accessible from hexbear are an exception to this. Posts that do not meet this requirement can be posted to !shitreactionariessay@lemmygrad.ml
Rule 9: if you post ironic rage bait im going to make a personal visit to your house to make sure you never make this mistake again
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
Yeah, thats all true, but utimately he made his own decisions, and the world is now slightly better off without him in it.
Who can say if he made the best decisions he could with the information and opportunity available to him? Not when the information was shit and the opportunities were slim to none. Ukrainian boys are being groomed for this. At some point you can't discount the propaganda machine that stamps hate into so many foreheads.
Only after a cartel of shit-heads twisted his soul and tossed away his body. The world won't be better until the engine of immiseration is silenced. No when the next generation of children is being lined up at the hopper.
there is definitely something in the fact that he was only a nazi because he was indoctrinated as a nazi from a young age likely in a program funded by the US
and as Stalin argued when he called for leniency for the Hitler youth someone raised in nazi ideas is less culpable than an adult that knew better
that being said it's not like he was executed and if a nazi is shooting at you who cares how he came to be a nazi
Being sent in to charge a fortified position is no different than being executed
well the russians didn't execute him he died trying to kill people
he also based on his nazi tattoos was probably in favour of the plan of fighting russia tooth and nail here
I mourn the innocent soul and indoctrinated child ensnared and corrupted by naziism along with you but also that innocent core was part of what became a very dangerous man and it became a tragic necessity for him to die
if he had been captured I would support him being reeducated rather than killed but there are limits to what you can do and it's more important to stop him than redeem him
That's the nature of war. If he'd taken another 20-something Russian soldier with shit politics on his way out, I wouldn't be cheering for that either. What they're doing is nightmarish, but they're just tools of the bourgeois fucks playing tug of war over the region.
I mourn the man he became. He was wasted before he'd died. But play this game and you're going to end up doing the "Military Age Males" shit that Americans use as an excuse for genocide. Being some dipshit with a gang tattoo doesn't make you dangerous. Not even if some goons stuff your hands full of military surplus and shove you towards a battle field. What's dangerous is the fucks churning these people out.
By whom? The fucking Wagner Corps? The Russian rank-and-file? Its pure
These people are human sacrifices. Raised like chattel and disposed of just as quickly. That's horrible on its face. Telling me the veal you're eating had bad ideology doesn't make the factory farm that processed him something to celebrate.
he had nazi tattoos and was in an army with recognised regiments of neo nazis. And having a gun in your hand does make you dangerous. If he was just a young man it would be one thing he is a young man in an army
yes it's very sad what happened to him but what happened to him made him actively dangerous to the ethnic russian civilians of the donbass and they also are innocents
Where he was marched to the front, shoved into enemy fire, and eulogized as propaganda for the next in the line of human sacrifices.
The Russian lines haven't moved. These people aren't dangerous. They're disposable.
they are both dangerous and disposable. There are Russian dead in this war. There are Russian and Ukrainian dead who didn't even want to be there unlike this man who was by all indication a volunteer and nazi
everything you just said for him could also be said of the wehrmacht
The guy was 12 when the civil war started and 19 when the invasion happened. If he'd grown up away from the battle front, he wouldn't be so fucked in the head.
Even Stalin had pity for the Hitler Youth
yes he did but there are degrees of innocence. A rabid dog is innocent but it's still dangerous
this is all true and materialist but also he did have some agency in this matter there are many people who were indoctrinated in hardcore racist backgrounds who broke away. He choose admitedly within a worse set of options than many people have ever been expected to face and maybe but for the grace of God there go I but he did choose this and I'm not that sorry that someone he was actively trying to kill killed him
I'll still mourn for Old Yeller.
The idea that Ukraine wouldn't have this war if everyone in the country just said "No more war!" is naive. That we're talking about this guy and not some kid who fled the warzone and survives in a refugee camp in East Russia or Poland or Moldova is a consequence of selection bias. If it wasn't him, it would have been some other kid who got suckered in by war propaganda, gang recruitment, and the illusion of security that a military provides. This kid (or someone like him) had his ticket punched as soon as the Bush State Department / CIA decided to flood Ukrainian Orange Revolutionaries with guns and funds, way back in 2004, when he was still in diapers.
To say he had agency? When? At 12, when the Ukrainian civil war turned hot? At 19, when Russian troops marched across the border and forced his family to flee? Did he have family to turn to? Was he educated or indoctrinated? Did he have friends who weren't all black-pilled on this shit already? Was he a volunteer or was he simply conscripted by Zelensky's goon squads? Was he choosing to join an ideological project or was he just eager to get his hands on three hots and a cot, in a country wracked by war-induced famine and homelessness?
What was he choosing between? What information did he actually have at any given moment?
If this was a story about a 22-year old Russian kid with a giant Wagner death's head tattooed on his skull who caught a bullet defending the Donetsk front from some Ukrainian guerrillas, I'd cry for him too.
Half the reason Ukraine and Russia are in this mess is their inability to see each other as people suffering the same material deprivations. Guys like this buy into the notion that they can kill their way to prosperity, just like you're sitting here with the belief that if enough of these kids die on the front lines, the ideology of these countries will somehow improve.
But blood can't wash anything clean. This guy will stain the black earth along with tens of thousands of others. And every death will make reconciliation between Russians and Ukrainians that much harder when the war is over.
Why are you crying so hard over dead Nazis?
Yes, dogshit people are indoctrinated. Indoctrinated people are the ones calling the shots & the ones dying in the trenches. It's a system. But you don't need to mourn this stupid fuck who wants nothing more than to reinforce that system. Violent systems have violent outcomes, be glad it was this guy and not someone who wouldn't get a fuckin swastika tattoo.
Because there but for the grace of God go we all.
Every kid who grows up to be a Nazi is a life squandered. It is a heart wrenching tragedy to imagine the trajectory of this person's life.
If fucking only. But guys like Putin and Blinken are as clear eyed as you get. Neither of them, nor their families, are getting anywhere near an active war zone.
what are you currently try to do or demonstrate ... he was the Nazi scum that brought that war on all those innocents that you heart should go out to .. it is al fine for somebody to get his wish granted ..
Based on results obviously he didn't lol. And plenty of others grew up in the same environment and didn't do this.
And where do you draw the line anyway? Elon musk was born into his position and reinforced with all the prevailing attitudes in society, is it also not his fault for being a fascist shithead? Everyone is just helplessly following their predetermined path? Seems undialectical. Maybe it's my predetermined path to have a sensible chuckle when nazis get got.
If you have some bottomless christ-like empathy for your enemies, then good for you I guess. I think it sounds exhausting and pointless. I still have far more empathy for them than they have for me, that's the best I can manage personally.
Plenty of others got explosive ordinance dropped on their heads or shrapnel wounds that crippled them for life.
This guy got targeted for recruitment by a military gang, and took the bait, because even bait looks good when you're starved.
You think he was having debates on the quad with his friends over the merits of ideology? You think he was holding up a copy of State and Revolution in one hand and Mein Kampf in the other, with ample opportunity to pick a side?
I don't see this kid as an enemy. I see him as a victim. No different than a black kid shoved into state prison for years. Or a hick from the sticks who enlisted to the American armed forces.
I was 19 during 9/11, and I absolutely had the "should I join the military?" moment. I had a conga line of people to talk me out of it. He didn't.
Unlike the dead nazi these hypothetical people wouldn't be ethicly cleansing eastern Ukraine if they weren't getting killed by the Russian army. But also fuck the troops including the hypothetical hick
It isn't as though the Russians are above a little ethnic cleansing. Just ask the Chechens. We're back into
. Am I supposed to cheer for a former Donetsk resident who was born into a burgeoning civil war aflame with right-wing propaganda at every angle because he got popped by a Russian soldier with equally awful politics doing ethnic nationalism on his side of the newly carved border? Or should I take the Reddit route and clap like a seal any time "Based Ukrainian Liberators Saw Off Man's Dick While Calling His Girlfriend On His Own Cell Phone" trends on some war-porn sub, because said dickless Russian can be tied back to some anti-LGBT post?
Its all fucking awful. And there are going to be an ample number of survivors of this war who regret every moment of it. Many of them are going to have some pretty cringe tattoos they picked up in the trenches. Why should we be happy when toxic racist ideology foments war and said war kills the folks that adopted said ideology?