596
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
596 points (92.7% liked)
World News
39174 readers
3246 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
So question, can you be anti terrorist and anti Israel?
Why not? Hell I’m Jewish and I think the Israeli govt is regularly in the wrong and I feel for the people of Israel that could have better lives and those the govt harms. I also think Hamas is evidently wretched and those perpetrating these abhorrent acts deserve everything coming to them.
Unfortunately, while I’m sure Hamas will suffer, the civilians of both Israel and Palestine will once again bear the true cost of this conflict.
Jew here too, Netanyahu is a corrupt fascist cunt.
how dare you! don't you know that the Palestinians mine controlled Hitler into doing the holocaust?
the scary part, Netanyahu said this, just less exaggerated.
What's your opinion on Palestinians?
My opinion is that they are a people, caged. The conditions that they live in are far below what they deserve for being human.
That’s my opinion really: they’re humans, just like all others and they deserve to be treated with dignity and to be loved and to be able to sleep knowing that they are safe. They have been deprived of these things for far, far too long and I believe that is deeply wrong.
What’s your opinion on Palestinians?
Apologies, I was busy not being chronically online. Made some noise for you so that you can pass judgement upon me at your leisure.
Then spend less time in your own head.
Based on the time stamps, you commented only an hour after then. Did you truly believe that if someone doesn't respond to a comment within an hour, they're purposely being silent? Or were you just chomping at the bit to say all Israelis were bad?
As funny as it would be to call you antisemitic if you don't reply within the hour -- take your time.
I strongly disagree with Israel's policies regarding settlements, Palestinians in general, etc.
That does not excuse Hamas or their terrorism
They're both kinda fucked really.
Israel is more fucked because they definitely have the resource to prevent this. How long can you deprive someone of their basic needs before their humanity is stripped away?
That only holds until you realize that Hamas are islamic jahadists. The latter are worse, no question.
Both are crimes under various international laws, some people seem to think you fight one by committing the other
Whats the altenative? Another generation of palestinians lost to the political whims of Netenyahu and the dehumanized at the hands of the far right while calmly waiting for the world to finally stop turning a blind eye? Can they start fighting back after they've been oppressed for 100 years or do we have to wait even longer?
Terrorism is not "fighting back." If they'd solely struck military targets, I would have significantly more empathy for them. I have 0 empathy for terrorism.
Goliath was in fact a soldier.
I get your point, but the consequences of this particular attack are almost certainly going to include a land invasion of Gaza, which will result in even more aggressive ethnic cleansing/genocide of the Palestinian people. But Israel has such disproportionate power in this situation that the only realistic way to halt the genocide is if Isreal decides to do it on its own, and that won't happen without significant international pressure (particularly from the US).
It would be far easier to win international support for the Palestinian cause if it was lead by progressive, democratic groups instead of a religious fundamentalist organization known for engaging in disproportionate violence against civilians (not even 2% of the level of violence Isreal has enacted to Palestine, but still).
Maybe Palestinians could try living in Jordan? Oh, Black September and all that happened.
Or maybe Lebanon would work? Oh, that's how we got Hezbollah, who has basically taken over Lebanon.
Maybe Egypt will open their doors to the Palestinians again? But then again, Rafah border crossing is almost always closed, because Egypt's de facto relationship with the Palestinians could be described as "we like you, but mostly because we hate Israel more".
I sympathize enormously with every normal Palestinian, but Mandatory Palestine will never be a thing again. The so-called State of Israel will continue to exist. It has been too long, and the only humanitarian hope for everyone involved is for Hamas and all related groups to accept defeat. But I don't see that happening, because the conflict isn't just over historical lands and freedom, but to eradicate all Zionists.
so be subjugated or die? That seems barbaric, not humanitarian.
"subjugated"? Don't be inane now. What's your solution, other than Hamas ceasing their terrorist attacks?
The solution would be to end the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, and granting all Palestinians within those territories full citizenship, voting rights, and economic reparations for the hardship they suffered at the hands of the Israeli state.
Then you wouldn't have the desperate poverty and crowded ghettos that make people desperate enough to join Hamas to begin with.
Yes subjegated. Look up the definition. Don't be inane now.
The alternative would be a secular, progressive, democratic resistance to the occupation, it's a lot easier to win international support if you're not a bunch insane religious fundamentalists (Hamas, not the Palestinian people broadly). I agree with your sentiment 100%, I just don't think Hamas is an organization that's capable of freeing Palestine from Israeli occupation.
Especially since Netanyahu's government literally sent them money because a relatively strong Hamas makes it easier for him to justify the ongoing genocide/ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
I don’t support either group here. But the reason this continues to be such a contentious issue is the decades of mistakes and extreme conflict that lead to the current state of things there. The entire area has been in cyclic conflict for hundreds of years, this is merely a continuation of that with the complexities of post ww2 short sighted and racist policies enacted by the allied powers influencing the way things have played out.
Israel is a far right authoritarian state and they are brutal in how they choose to operate. Palestine is a hotbed for terrorism and is equally brutal in the guerrilla tactics they employ.
External influence from western and Islamic countries fuels the flames. It’s a disaster and a mess.
There’s genuinely no two state solution. As long as these two groups share this place they will always fight. And there’s no resolution that doesn’t see everyone else dragged into yet another proxy war.
Personally I think this will see some of the most major developments in this conflict in decades. The repercussions of this act will be large scale and relentless. But the Israelis will quickly find themselves in a quagmire if they try to occupy Palestine in any major capacity. It won’t be over quickly. Many will die.
But I suspect that’s where we are heading.
I just don’t see what the goal was for hamas other than to spread terror and I guess push Israel to retaliate. I suppose their goal is to make them commit war crimes and shift public sentiment? Or maybe draw in Arab neighbors to assist again (it went so well last time). They had to know there would be a major reprisal and it would not be an equal fight.
I suspect this is it. There’s been a lot of back and forth but I do not believe Israel will be walked back to the table here, this was far and beyond anything that can just be forgiven. This is a 9/11 level event for this country and having seen American fury and rage after that I can only assume the same will be seen here.
Yeah i think we are no longer coming back to the table. And what’s interesting is that there’s precedent for this both ways. Obviously an occupation would be bloody and violent and in general they fail to uproot the terrorists cells, instead only further instigating them and driving people to their cause.
But at the same time you can look at what happened in Sri Lanka. They had terrorists operating in the country for decades. Same sort of deal. Only there the military operation persisted and eventually through vicious brutality they drove them into a corner and forced their retreat. While the country continues to experience turmoil and issues, the era of the militant Tamils is a shadow of what it once was.
I don’t know how it will play out but there’s going to be quite a bit more blood shed. They’ll pay for every dead Israeli with ten of their own.
There were essentially no Jews (<2%) living in the areas of Israel and Palestine before the Zionist colonization movement in the late 1800's.
You're trying to make it seem like this modern day thing is even remotely related to the past, which it isn't.
There’s a clear distinction between the sort of age of crusades and modern post ww2 geopolitics that generated the current conflict, but to suggest that there’s not been a near continuous level of conflict in the area between Jews, Muslims, and Christians is disingenuous.
This is like saying the BLM movement in America has nothing to do with slavery.
It's not disingenuous. Jewish people literally just weren't there until very recently. You're talking like 1000+ years ago.
This is the central question everyone can't agree on, right? Which group that conquered the region and eradicated their enemies has the "rights" to the land? I'm seriously ignorant on the subject, and more than happy to delete this comment if it's not really adding to anything, but we're calibrating our standards of who has the rights to a region based on what the latest Empire said, be it Ottomans or Romans or however far back we want to go, until we're talking literally Neolithic folks showing up, right? I'm not religious, so there's a critical part of this conflict I simply cannot fundamentally understand.
The difference between making claims based on occupation in the late 1800s versus late 800s seems arbitrary, to me. That said, I know that can sound patently ridiculous, since we're talking generations we can count on one hand versus the same number of Empires controlling the land: so this is where I throw my hands up and just cry a little. Solidarity to everyone suffering oppression and terrorism, in whatever forms they take.
Sure, you can always be hated by everybody. That's generally my MO in most things. I think Hamas is a terrorist Islamic group and the Likud are ur-fascists.
Of course
You can do anything as long as you work hard and believe in yourself
I don't think that's true :(
Not if you have a smooth brain, no
Nope unless you consider israel as the terrorists, which from the point of view of palestinians is true.