UNMASKING AUTISM BOOK CLUB: INTRODUCTION (hexbear.net)

submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by FourteenEyes@hexbear.net to c/neurodiverse@hexbear.net

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WHERE TO GET THE BOOK: http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=F6B31A8DAFD6BD39A5986833E66293E6

Audiobook format (expires 1/27): https://litter.catbox.moe/l3298q.m4b

So, this post will be "Introduction" in the sense that it will introduce us all to the book club and the book, and we will also be covering the introduction. The emotional content is pretty heavy; as such I figured it deserved its own discussion. It's not especially long, but it covers Dr. Price's journey into accepting his autism, and if you're on the spectrum or even just neurodivergent in general you'll probably strongly relate to a lot of what he lays down here. You, like me, may read this chapter and find yourself thinking he's literally me, he just like me, he just like me fr ong no cap denji-just-like-me

Dr. Price is a transgender social psychologist born in Ohio, who graduated from Loyola University Chicago where he teaches as a professor in continuing studies. He wrote and published Laziness Does Not Exist before this one, and it's also worth a read. In this book, Dr. Price also discusses his gender identity and how there's a very high incidence of gender non-conformity amongst neurodiverse people. So in addition to folks with ADHD and autism, or those with other neurodiversities, it can also benefit LGBT+ folks who have to cover up their true selves for safety or social acceptance.

I plan on making another post about chapter one on Sunday or Monday of next week, depending on whether I can make time, and then one post about each chapter every week or every other week depending on what people's feedback is.

In the intro, Dr. Price discusses his personal and emotional problems, social isolation, autistic self-discovery and research, entry into the autism self-advocacy community, and official diagnosis. He discusses how people who don't fit the stereotype of autism are often neglected by medical professionals. How this neglect harms neurodiverse people of all stripes, and how unmasking can be a key to a full, authentic life. (Here's hoping.)

He describes unmasking as a frightning and, indeed, potentially dangerous prospect, but provides tools throughout for approaching the process and beginning to know yourself, find where the mask ends and you begin, and believe that the person underneath is worth knowing in the first place.

First, discussion questions:

What interested you in this book club?
Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?
What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

He ends with an exercise called the Values-Based Integration Process, which we'll go over below.

VALUES-BASED INTEGRATION PROCESS (by Heather R Morgan) STEP ONE

"Think of five moments in your life where you felt like you were FULLY ALIVE. Try to find moments throughout your life (childhood, adolescence, adulthood, school, work, vacation, hobbies)

Some of the moments might leave you with a sense of awe and wonder -- 'Wow, if all of life was like that, it would be amazing!'

Some of the moments might leave you feeling deeply recharged and ready to face the next challenge, or satisfied and fulfilled."

The books says to write it down in as much detail as possible, but I don't actually expect anyone to post all that stuff here. Just a personal exercise to get the juices flowing. I'll post some of my own personal thoughts in a comment below.

CARCOSA@hexbear.net , I was asked to tag you for a sticky on this. I think a few mods are in my tag list as well if you can't get to it.

The following folks asked to be tagged:

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[-] the_itsb@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club?

I'm an autistic person who is maybe dying of terminally wretched masking but is terrified of unmasking

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

I'm AuDHD and so are my husband and kid, though unfortunately I still feel wildly alone because they're the same flavor of neurospicy as each other but very different from me

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

The whole thing made me feel pretty deer-in-the-headlights - oh fuck, oh shit

reflecting on a moment you felt truly alive

Once upon a time, I went on a white water rafting trip in the New River Gorge as a small child, and we stopped at this weird bricked drainage grotto thing that felt very Indiana Jones-y to me, and most of the adults were scared to get out of the raft and swim into the grotto to the little waterfall in the back, but I was out of the boat the second they said we could. It was mysterious and wonderful and weird and exciting.

Most of the other "super alive" memories I have involve some degree of trauma, but this one was all joy and exhilaration.

PS - hey FourteenEyes@hexbear.net - I super appreciate you doing this. I know this is hard and has been a weight for you, and I just want you to know that I'm very, very grateful for your efforts. Thank you. ❤️

[-] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago

reflecting on a moment you felt truly alive

Once upon a time, I went on a white water rafting trip in the New River Gorge as a small child, and we stopped at this weird bricked drainage grotto thing that felt very Indiana Jones-y to me, and most of the adults were scared to get out of the raft and swim into the grotto to the little waterfall in the back, but I was out of the boat the second they said we could. It was mysterious and wonderful and weird and exciting.

What a lovely experience. Thanks for sharing ☺️

[-] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 7 months ago

I have lots of thoughts about this introductio and I'll write them in full later, but I'm just leaving a reply to mention that mentions don't work in the thread post on Lemmy, only in the replies.

[-] codapine@lemm.ee 14 points 7 months ago

Does the Audiobook format work? Currently pointing at a 404.

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago

I have reuploaded the audiobook here:

https://litter.catbox.moe/5l45c0.m4b

This will expire in 72 hours after this comment has been posted as per last time due to the catbox limitations.

[-] kickit@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago

LEGEND

thanks friend order-of-lenin

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago

my bad, I missed that detail when I was putting this together. Seems I made a few typos, too, I can fix those as well. Thanks.

[-] sovietknuckles@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

From @ReadFanon@hexbear.net 6 days ago:

This file link will expire 72 hours after this comment has been posted.

[-] the_itsb@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

When I posted offering some audible credits (still have a couple btw, doesn't need to be this book, idgaf), someone mentioned it was available on anonymouse(?), but idk what that is

I'll try to find the comment

Edit - no 😂 it was "myanonamouse" - guess I was still kinda in the ballpark - here's the comment

[-] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 7 months ago

Piracy website for books and audiobooks. here. It's a private tracker but they accept piracy noobs, so long as you obey the rules. It has a ton of good audiobooks, even if it also has a ton of horrible ones too.

[-] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

same here

[-] sovietknuckles@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

Here's the introduction: Unmasking Autism introduction

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 13 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club?

I have read through this book a couple of times and I think it's really valuable. It's a bit flawed imo and I hope that in a few years time we'll see a revised edition come out to bring it up to speed with a couple of things but 90% good is still really good, even moreso when we're talking about stuff that there's almost nothing having been written about.

Don't ask me about my criticisms of the book because I don't want to prime people to dislike this book and I don't want to shit on the experience for others or to drag the book club experience down. Maybe when the book club comes to a conclusion it might be time to reflect on where the book could be improved.

I'm also interested in this book club because I volunteered to share my experience - I participated in training developed and delivered by Heather Morgan that formed the basis of the unmasking exercises and it cost a fair chunk of change and the rest of the group I was with were all... sorta petit-bourgeois life coach types and I just know that to get access to this stuff otherwise, people would be looking at having to start as a client with a life coach and that shit costs like $100+ per session.

That doesn't really sit well with me and I know that it puts this expertise out of reach for a lot of people here. I've railed against how fucked it is that neurodivergent people are generally higher represented in unemployment and underemployment, they are likely to be underpaid for their work, and they tend to have higher costs for things like therapy, medication, and accessibility (think like needing a house cleaner or having to order food delivered because executive dysfunction has you in its claws and you need to eat but the idea of trying to cook something might as well be climbing mount Everest or just having to catch a taxi because the ADHD tax made you run late for work and you're better off paying the taxi fare than you are getting fired...)

The inequity of putting this stuff behind an inaccessible paywall isn't something I find tolerable. Don't get me wrong, people like Devon Price and Heather Morgan deserve to be paid for their work but the inherent injustice of the care system and the economic system underpinning it puts the expertise out of reach of most people who aren't at least comfortably "middle class" and it makes me feel indignation to know that the people who would likely benefit the most from this stuff are the ones who are also the most likely to be excluded from it.

I can't change the way that it is but I can do my part to democratise this expertise.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Yep. I'm autistic with ADHD, late-diagnosed, and enough of the "other" neurodivergence that tends to be a bit of an afterthought in comparison to autism and ADHD too.

As for others? Lol. Where to start... there are quite a few neurodivergent people I know, despite having a limited social circle at the moment. I've been the catalyst for more than a couple of people to go and get themselves diagnosed but I promise that I was very gentle in this process with people - I know that late-diagnosis can be one hell of a bumpy ride and I wouldn't go throwing someone else into the deep end with that, regardless of how obvious their neurodivergence might be to me.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

Honestly I haven't started re-reading the book just yet (😬) because I struggle so damn much with reading especially at the moment.

I'm participating in this because I want to contribute to the momentum of the reading group and to show my support.

[-] GarfieldOfficial@hexbear.net 13 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club? Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is? I finally pursued an adhd diagnosis after 30+ years of coping and depression after being raised by parents too anxious about the stigma of neurodivergence to pursue a diagnosis (just put me in advanced classes instead). My partner and I are both shades of partly diagnosed spicy, adhd and major depression are mine and she has a “highly sensitive introvert personality” with anxiety. We’ve been tugging at threads in our tangled brains to try and figure out what’s up. We’re both fairly successful in our fields through masking, coping, and misery, and want to be advocates such that no one else needs to feel anything besides pride and an embrace of their neurodiversity. Hoping the perspectives of this book will be transformative in the way that Trans Liberation was the first time I read it. A better future is coming for all of us.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to? Will download tonight and dive in and check back in to the thread.

Ps this com has already done wonders for my understanding of neurodiversity, embrace of my own and that of others, and you’re all wonderful people who deserve nothing but the best from life

[-] roux@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

We’ve been tugging at threads in our tangled brains to try and figure out what’s up.

Me and my wife are working through this right now. We are also both various degrees of spicy. One thing I think that has helped is to maintain an open channel of communication that is specific to just the ND stuff as y'all figure things out. We've been doing this for like 15 mins here and there and it's helped both of us understand each other's plight.

Like, communication with your SO is pretty paramount but having a lane open just for the neuro-chaotic has been a great tool.

[-] KrasMazov@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 7 months ago

I'll write my thoughts later, but for now I wanted to thank you for this, I've been meaning to read this book for a while now and this might be the push I need.

[+] FodlegBob@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

[deleted]

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago

The values-integration process was a little uncomfortable.

To try to think of 5 times when I felt that was is challenging to a lot of my preconceptions.

That's understandable.

I participated in the training that Heather Morgan authored/delivered which the book's exercise is a distillation of and it was challenging for me as well (I have a pretty extensive history of childhood trauma).

What I'd encourage you to do is to not focus so much on coming up with 5 but instead just try to come up with a couple. They don't need to be some huge watershed moments in your life, they can also be "small" experiences that resonated with you.

I can elaborate on the purpose of this exercise if you feel like understanding it better would be helpful for you.

It might be worth discussing this exercise with someone who you trust because if you're high masking or you're carrying a lot of trauma then it can be difficult to recall moments where you've experienced this in your life but talking it through with another person might be helpful.

[-] FodlegBob@hexbear.net 9 points 7 months ago

Do you think you could DM me that elaboration when you get the opportunity.

I was planning on discussing this with someone else yes, but the suggestion is still vwery much appreciated. Thank you a lot for your input

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

[CW: mild discussions of child abuse used in the context of analogy]

Sure, I'm about to sleep and I'm a bit flat today so if there's anything I have realised that I've missed I'll post another comment so you'll get notified but also feel free to ask if I'm not being as clear as you need.

I'm going to put the explanation for the process here. I guess spoiler warning(?) but tbh there's nothing that will get spoiled by understanding the process better unless someone is planning to intentionally sabotage a self-conducted exercise but if that's the case then there's bigger stuff to worry about than encountering a spoiler for this.

So the heart of the exercise is based on the understanding that masking is a fundamental disconnection from your "authentic" self (I hate that term but we're going to use it for shorthand in this case.)

This fundamental disconnection from yourself leaves you feeling a variety of negative things - being without direction or purpose, feelings of emptiness or meaninglessness, depression, anxiety etc. and ultimately doing things not from a place of what you need, what you want, and what is in line with your true values but instead it's doing things from a place of internalised expectations placed upon you by others (individuals, family, community, society, the media etc.)

The opposite of this is feeling a strong connection to your authentic self and doing things that are in harmony with yourself, your needs, your desires, and your values.

What comes from this strong connection to your authentic self and acting upon it is feeling enlivened, something that is likely quite rare for a late-diagnosed or undiagnosed autistic adult.

To try to connect a person who is high-masking to their authentic selves is difficult because each facet of their masking is typically very strongly associated with external expectations, even if they've been internalised by the individual, and so asking a high-masking autistic person "What is most important to you?" is a bit like asking an abused child what a healthy relationship looks like - you're going to get answers that are primarily filtered through their experience (either of abuse or of masking) and what has developed in response to that rather than something deeper.

So for a high-masking autistic person, if you asked them straight up what they value then they're very inclined to give you answers that come from a place of meeting the expectations of others or ways to avoid experiencing rejection/ridicule/humiliation etc. from others.

This isn't really a connection to the authentic self, however. This would just be an exercise in articulating the necessity for masking and the reasons why masking is important. (Obviously this is the complete opposite of what the exercise is supposed to achieve.)

As an analogy, an abused child might tell you that a healthy relationship is one where neither party has arguments. This would be because they've associated arguments with threat and suffering. But if we took that child and they used that as their basis for achieving a healthy relationship then you end up with an adult who will constantly compromise on their own needs, who will avoid conflict at any cost, and who doesn't know how to achieve conflict resolution but only appeasement; they might have achieved a relationship that is minimal-conflict but that alone is not a recipe for a healthy relationship because there is necessarily going to be a degree of conflict that comes from asserting things like needs and boundaries, and so it's not unusual to have arguments in relationships. In fact a relationship where there are never any arguments is usually a good indication that there's something really amiss.

So to circumvent getting answers about values and purpose "from the mask" and instead from the authentic self, the exercise asks you to identify times when you felt strongly connected to your authentic self on an experiential level - hence the question about moments when you felt really alive.

Once a few experiences have been identified from that place of feelings very alive - from being connected to and acting upon your authentic self - then the next step is to develop an understanding of what values were being enacted or embodied during these experiences to draw out what really matters to you as a person so that you can start to find ways to reconnect with yourself and to embody your authentic values in your life.

If masking is basically like method acting (and in a lot of ways it really is) and you ask the method actor what they are feeling, they're going to tell you what their character is feeling. In a similar way, if you ask a high-masking autistic what they value they're going to tell you what is important to their masking. A method actor is capable of switching all of that off though. On the other hand, a high-masking autistic person might not even realise that they are masking or understand what's beneath the mask. So the exercise is designed to try and catch those (often rare) moments when you haven't been performing the mask but rather embodying and enacting your authentic self and connecting to that outside of masking (even if you aren't able to identify that you weren't masking at the time) in order to draw out what that looks like so you can set about actively pursuing this in your life going forwards.

It's important to note that the exercise is like a short summary of what the process really is and the process is something that ideally takes place over the course of more than a few hours of discussion and self-reflection and stuff like that.

Anyway, I hope that makes some sense.

It's difficult to describe an experiential process like this, especially because it's necessarily going to be different for each individual, so apologies if it still seems vague or confusing.

If you are struggling with this process I just want to let you know that you aren't alone, there isn't something wrong with you if you're having difficulty doing this exercise, and that everything is okay. You won't miss out on getting stuff from reading this book even if you struggle with this exercise or if you can't do it at the moment. The process of unmasking can be confronting and challenging; if it was easy then we'd already be doing it instead of needing to read books and exercises on it even just to get started on our unmasking journey.

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling on.

I'm going to try and check in on how you're feeling about this exercise in about a week's time but I'm terrible for forgetting things and letting them slip off my radar. I'd encourage you to reach out to me if you don't see me replying to this comment in about a weekor if it's between then and now and you would appreciate some more input from me.

I hope this has helped clarify things a bit!

[-] FodlegBob@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

thank you this was very clear and i think I get what youre saying.

this is going to be hard

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

Hey, sorry this got away from me; my health has been shitty.

I'm just checking in with you to see how you're going with this exercise - how's progress? Is there anything that you would like help with?

[+] FodlegBob@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

[deleted]

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

That's cool.

It's not an easy exercise for everyone and I just want to reinforce to you that it's not a reflection of some deficit in you - some people have been through a lot of shit, and some people's experience of masking is especially deep and pervasive so trying to pinpoint those rare glimpses of existence outside of masking can be really difficult to do.

If you are interested, I can make time to talk this stuff through with you the way that a coach trained in this model would do. I won't promise that we'd arrive at the end point of the exercise and there's no pressure, but if you're interested we can arrange a time. What it would look like is a conversation (text chat or voice chat) over approximately an hour. The conversation is very much focused on the positives and it's not gruelling emotional work like you might experience in therapy. It might take more than one conversation and I'm happy to see the process through and to make further meet-up times if you feel like it would be helpful.

(If needed I can pull up stuff to show that I attended the training if you want to verify. And just so it's clear from the outset - this is something I am offering to do without charge and I am not going to ask for anything nor do I want anything in exchange, I'm not going to try and sell you anything, and I'm not going to use this to try and draw in potential clients for coaching or anything like that.)

I'll leave the ball in your court - if you want to more info or you want to line up a time with me then feel free to. If not, that's totally fine - I am not of the opinion that there's one model or exercise that works for everyone. If it's not for you or it's not the right time at the moment, that's cool. If this is something you want to do by yourself or with someone else, likewise this is completely fine with me.

[+] FodlegBob@hexbear.net 1 points 7 months ago

[deleted]

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

Of course. There's absolutely no pressure on my end so don't feel like there's some expiry date to this offer or whatever.

Tbh if you're really high masking, and it sounds as though that would probably describe you, then it might be more than enough personal work just to read through the book and to process what it brings up for you and that's cool. If this is the case then taking on additional emotional work could very well be counterproductive and I wouldn't want to put you in that situation.

Take all the time you need.

If you want to get more info to arrive at a decision then I'm happy to talk it through with you as much as you need. Fyi I work from a trauma-informed model and one of the things that I draw heavily upon in this sort of space is Vikki Reynolds' concept of 'structuring safety' (PDF warning & academic jargon warning). I guess in short what I'm driving here is that it doesn't have to be a decision that comes with any committment on your end (aside from a commitment to your own needs & safety) - you can decide you've had enough at any point and withdraw without consequence.

To be really transparent about it, my approach to this is that (in this situation) masking starts at the decision-making process, wayyyy before one even commits to something. In my experience there's a lot of mental preparation that goes into trying to figure out what sort of social role you need to fulfil and getting yourself into the "right" headspace to do what's expected of you before agreeing to do something. This is a very normal response to navigating the world as an autistic person and it's a survival strategy which is tried and true, so I'm not about to stigmatise it by any means, however my intention is to create a space where this is optional, where you have the opportunity to decide if you need to do it and, if so, doing it to the extent that you choose to; unmasking isn't an all-or-nothing deal and unmasking needs to be integral to every step of the process rather than it being some destination that you arrive at when you cross the finish line.

With that in mind, if you do choose to take me up on the offer I would encourage you to start from where you are rather than focusing on getting yourself to a place where you are prepared to meet expectations. If starting from where you are means needing to understand the process better or figuring out if it's something that's going to work for you or even if it's about figuring out if my approach is a good fit for you (or anything else for that matter), it's cool with me.

I hope that makes sense and sorry for all the rambling lol

[-] roux@hexbear.net 9 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club?

I'm on a huge ass reading binge that started with "Why am I actually not reading theory?" that started about 1.5 years ago with Marx and Engels. This has become a journey of me rediscovering a love for reading. I actually started forming themed blocks around all the books I have been wanting to tackle. I did not have a Neurodivergent block planned and then saw this book mentioned a bunch shortly after my diagnosis. I actually finished reading this book at the beginning of this month but it's kicked off a new block focused on Neurodivergence, Trans Liberation, LGBTQ+ in general, Feminsim, PoC, and etc stuff. Basically marginalized groups. I wanna learn as much as I can now lol.

Rambling aside, I guess I am interested in this book club to see how others see themselves reflected in the book like I did.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

My diagnosis is Autism, Severe Depression(probably actually Major Depressive Disorder), and Social Anxiety. My wife is ND, I am on a discord sever full of ND and LGBTQ+ friends, and my bestie is also ND. Our disorders range from both main flavors of ADHD, PTSD/CPTSD, Anxiety, Depression, OCD, and a few more.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

What stood out for me, was that Devon mentions his drinking problem a few times but I think in the intro. I have a history of drinking and it dawned on me real fast that it was probably a coping mechanism due to my undiagnosed autism and trying to exist in a Neurotypical world without a script. I fell back on alcohol when I had a bad day, or when I had a good day. I did it when I was hanging out with family and friends. I think this was me trying to fix my overstimulation and to try and pretend to be functional in social environments. I think my Depression and Anxiety could also potentially be my body coping as well or it could just be comorbidity(or a bit of both?). Like I've always had a drinking problem but it never felt like an addiction. This might be the answer to that.

[-] Lucien@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Reading the dead tree version right now, stuck in an analysis loop on the last page of the introduction.

Edit: goddamned adhd, missed the homework portion:

What interested you in this book club?

Seeing other people mention this book, so I ordered it.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Aside from the aforementioned adhd, I'm also on the autistic spectrum.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

There were several points where I audibly said "what the fuck". It's like he was writing the book about me.

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 5 points 7 months ago

There were several points where I audibly said "what the fuck". It's like he was writing the book about me.

Yeah. There were lines in this book that I had said, almost verbatim, to my therapist.

[-] Moonworm@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

Is this book going to make me cry?

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago

Yes

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

It did for me.

[-] JohannaChittarra@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago

I just got the book. Can you add me to the tag list when you get the chance?

[-] homhom9000@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club?

I have a copy, unfinished, and want to read it with comrades

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Yes and yes. Adult diagnosis

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

I'll add what I highlighted

"To other people, my tears were immature tantrums and my opinions were condescending diatribes. As I grew up, I learned to be less intense, less embarrassing- less me"

"Things like staring at a person's forehead to stimulate eye contact, or memorizing conversational scripts based on exchanges they saw on TV"

"Refusing to perform neurotypicality is a revolutionary act of disability justice"

I accept I'm autistic, but taking off the mask is scary. Reading that the author had similar feelings makes it feel less scary, that other people on the spectrum could have gone through the same thing. That makes it feel like my diagnosis is less of some attribute defining me and more of a disability many of us share, and therefore can use each other to go through.

The Dr that diagnosed me said, when I'm alone there's no reason to keep my mask on so use that time to let it all out (or else I'll get burned out but I took it as self understanding). I got to the poing where I can unmask in front of my best friend. I hope this book can help with the rest of my relationships.

[-] Wertheimer@hexbear.net 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This book has already changed, and may have saved, my life. Since I made my previous post about it I've consulted two of my oldest friends - one just finished reading, the other is now starting - and they agree that I'm probably Autistic, even though they say it had never occurred to them before. All three of us had serious misconceptions about what Autism is, and this book has been profoundly illuminating for all of us.

What interested you in this book club?

It was @Pixel_Juicer@hexbear.net 's post here that really started not only clearing up some misconceptions but also ringing some bells. And then other posts, especially from @FourteenEyes@hexbear.net and @ReadFanon@hexbear.net , pointed me toward Unmasking Autism in particular. And here I thought the first Hexbear-approved book I was going to read this year was Clara Mattei's The Capital Order.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Yes - I have severe migraines, which are not only neurological but have also caused enough other problems that I think they qualify as neurodiversity. I also have depression. And lately I've been having serious trouble dealing with the neurotypicals, which is why I started having more questions and reading threads like this one, so I hope that anyone else reading this who has trouble understanding why their life is the way it is will also read this book.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

In the introduction, the line that hooked me was "I seemed to be broken in ways I couldn't explain, but which everyone else could see at a glance."

For the full book, the most important thing for me was the discussion of autistic burnout. That rang more bells than Quasimodo, and figuring out how to better avoid it (and the ensuing migraine clusters that absolutely annihilate me) is why I think my life is about to seriously change for the better. (Might get worse, first, but.) Comrades, I don't know that I have ever felt hope like this before. Thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone here.

[-] stigsbandit34z@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

What interested you in this book club?

This post on hexbear dot net and the fact that I also recently downloaded it :) good timing

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Just me and every one of my friends (except for maybe one)

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

My self-confidence is absolutely shot from years of shame and hiding myself.

“I’d hidden all this for years because I was certain it made me a joyless, unlovable asshole. Now I was beginning to wonder why I believed such awful things about myself.”

My goal is to eventually get to this point. My therapist, for example, has continually asks me why I believe bad things about myself and tear myself down so often. And I genuinely have no other answer than it has been what people have seen in me ever since I can remember, particularly my family

[-] milistanaccount09@hexbear.net 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

What interested you in this book club?

I have Autism myself and being able to better understand the condition will definetly help me a lot.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

as I previously said yep, and pretty much everyone in my life is. my parents aren't diagnosed but at least one of them does have something going on

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

There were some anecdotes I highlighted, as I share in some of the traits mentioned, and I want to try and untangle them and see how exactly they apply to me. For instance, I got into a really bad abusive, codependent relationship as a result of my fawning and people-pleasing instincts. I'm still pretty deep in a metaphorical pit myself from my own disabilities with ADHD and to another extent autism. It's pretty miserable and feels like it can't be 'fixed' or mitigated sometimes, but I really want to be able to, so that's what I'm interested in looking at.

Also please add me to the tag list :)

[-] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Ty for the tag. I didn't get a notification for it I'm not sure why but I saw the post so all good.

What interested you in this book club?
There are many autistic comrades on hexbear so I want to learn more about it.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?
I don't think so? I don't know to be honest. There are things in the introduction I related to and others I didn't (apologies for jumping ahead on a question, I felt it was better to answer it here). I don't think I'm autistic though. I have colleagues I believe are neurodiverse and people I interact with through work and volunteering.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?
I don't know when the introduction ended, I'm listening to the audiobook and got to about an hour in, so I hope I'm not covering ground for the next chapter. I liked that Price is narrating it himself (right? Or did I get that wrong). No quotes stood out to me. I think I'm gunna hold back from commenting too much until I've listened a bit more?

[-] PointAndClique@hexbear.net 4 points 7 months ago

Oh actually, shout out in the intro to Hannah Gadsby great comedian worth checking out.

[-] KrasMazov@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Sorry for the long time since my first comment here, only found the energy to tackle this right now.

I have one question tho. I never really participated in any sort of book club before. Is this basically just a post a week discussing a chapter at a time and we just comment about it in each thread, or is this something different?

Now for the discussion questions:

What interested you in this book club?

Even before I was diagnosed as autistic a little less than a year ago, I was already searching about it like crazy, and one of the biggest recommendations I found was this book, but I never got around to reading it.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Like I said above, yeah I'm autistic. I do know at least one other person that is a diagnosed neurodivergent, in his case he's bipolar. There's probably other people around me that might be neurodivergent too, but no other actual diagnosed people. I don't think there's anyone else in my family that is also autistic tho, I might be the only one, makes me feel kinda lonely actually.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

~~I haven't read the introduction yet since I just downloaded the book and it's very late here, I'll edit this tomorrow and put my thoughts about it. (Also, I was confused for a bit and thought this question was about this post as an introduction, not the introduction of the book, lol. Had to take a look what others were writing to realize that cuz I didn't get the question.)~~

Well, aside from the "he’s literally me, he just like me, he just like me fr ong no cap" from 90% of the introduction lol, these quotes just describe me:

I believed something was fundamentally wrong with me. I seemed to be broken in ways I couldn't explain, but which everyone else could see at a glance.

After being mocked about our passions, we become secretive about our special interests.

To other people, my tears were immature tantrums and my opinions were condescending diatribes. As I grew up, I learned to be less intense, less embarrassing - less me.

I couldn't describe myself better. Years and years of non-stop bullying followed by my loud crying everyday of my life during childhood and being constantly mocked for the things I liked, all while feeling broken, feeling angry at the other kids, feeling like I didn't belong and that I was an alien, couldn't result in anything other than a mess of an adult that is still traumatized to this day. 🫠

Good thing I'm in therapy at least.

Also, add me to the tag list if you can, please.

[-] BreadMaster5000@hexbear.net 4 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club?

I initially stumbled upon a thread on here where this book was recommended and I felt like it described the missing pieces to the puzzle of understanding myself. I have read through the book already and I'd like to read your experiences, as well as to share mine. I'd like to learn to unmask, to be myself, to accept myself as I am, to be compassionate with myself and to find happiness in all of this.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

I am pretty sure that I have ASD. I score pretty high on the different tests that were posted on the other threads. The waitings lists are pretty long to get diagnosed where I am but I should get it sorted next year. Most of my friends have ADHD, I am usually the one that gives them structure and we balance out.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

I believed something was fundamentally wrong with me. I seemed to be broken in ways I couldn’t explain, but which everyone else could see at a glance. I spent several more years languishing like this, working myself to the point of burnout, having emotional breakdowns, relying on romantic partners for social contact and a sense of worthiness, and googling things like “how to make friends” in the middle of the night. Through it all, I never considered asking for help or sharing with anyone how I felt. I lived by a very narrow set of rules, and remaining independent and invulnerable was chief among them.

Many of these stealthily Autistic people fell back on their intellect or other talents to gain acceptance. Others became incredibly passive, because if they toned down their personalities, they wouldn’t have to risk being too “intense.” Beneath the inoffensive, professional veneers they had developed, their lives were falling apart. Many of them suffered from self-harm, eating disorders, and alcoholism. They were trapped in abusive or unfulfilling relationships, with no clue how to feel seen and appreciated. Nearly all of them were depressed, haunted by a profound sense of emptiness. Their entire lives had been shaped by mistrust in themselves, hatred of their bodies, and fear of their desires.

I'd have a couple more, but the ones that hit me the most were in the next chapters. Thank you for organizing this!

[-] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club?

I've been on a reading and listening (audiobook) binge for months now, and have never read a book about autism that satisfied me. Since I saw a description of this book and played it for like 1 minute I can't stop listening to chapters of it on repeat.

Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

Yes, I'm Autistic with a dash of ADHD. Been aware since I was a child. I've also basically only truly mingled with other Autistic or neurodiverse people, and I'm pretty sure I could try to interpret some family members as such too, but we hardly ever get in touch these days.

What stood out to you about the introduction? Any choice quotes? Anything you relate to?

I was very pleasantly surprised that the author tackled the question of how race, gender, sexuality and class affect one's Autistic experience and behaviour. I've always been annoyed at this stereotype I've always called "white autism" of privileged kids who used their diagnosis as a justification to be horrible people. Since "Asperger's Syndrome" is now a discredited term (because people remembered he was a Nazi collaborator), it has become another insult of choice among my groups.

Other than that, the generally hopeful tone caught my eye. I have dealt with Anhedonia for most of my adult life, and generally feel like I don't even mask that much and have never associated it with being Autistic. But now, listening to this random person who never met me just casually list a ton of stuff that I went through as "common things", I'm paying attention.

The exercise for this chapter feels weird to me. There are some moments where I've "felt alive" in a sense, but they're usually incredibly unhealthy moments, either related to gaming addiction or dumb experimentations with my body and metabolism. I'm not sure if these are things I should be encouraging.

Though playing 500 hours of "Fire Emblem: Three Houses" during the pandemic definitely made me realise I'm an actual history nerd and should read more history. So I guess something good came out of that one addiction there.

[-] sevenapples@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 7 months ago

What interested you in this book club? Are you neurodiverse? Do you know someone who is?

There was a time when I questioned whether I was ND, but I ruled it out based on online assessment tests. Also, a therapist dismissed the idea without any questionnaire or deep discussion on the matter, saying it was more likely that some social stuff I struggle with were because of childhood issues.

I have some ND friends, I relate to some of their experiences but not all. When I hang out with NTs, I can't tell if I'm not having a good time because of nd/nt mismatch or because I've yet to meet compatible NTs.

What stood out to you about the introduction?

The mention that masked autism flies under the radar on some diagnostic tests.

Please tag me for the next meetings.

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 4 points 7 months ago

So, my thoughts. CW: suicidal ideation, self-harm, child SA, trauma, really fucking dark depressing thoughts on display.

spoiler

People appreciated my honesty and vulnerability in the The Will to Change thread, so I figured why not wring out my soul in front of a bunch of strangers on the communist anti-Reddit? soypoint-1

My background is pretty bland and depressing. I'm 37 years old, diagnosed ADHD, clinically depressed (as in major depressive disorder), anxiety. Self-diagnosed autistic after reading this book and realizing that yeah, every facet of my outward self is designed to placate people around me, to fit social expectations, and to try and minimize attention to myself because I associate getting attention with humiliation and shame.

I've always been a weirdo. I've made no secret of that here. Social problems fitting in as a child. Incredibly smart from a young age, they tell me. I taught myself to read at age 2, I'm told. I later learned that's sometimes called "hyperlexia" and is strongly indicated with autism. I don't recall doing the "classic" autism things as a kid like lining up my toys instead of playing with them, but I absolutely preferred to be by myself and had trouble relating with other kids. I was bullied from a young age, always had trouble making friends my entire life. I've always felt ostracized, humiliated by my peers more than anything else, unable to relate. I learned I had ADHD at a young age, around 8, and they threw some Ritalin at it and called it a day. Didn't start actually understanding what ADHD is until the last few years, like post-pandemic, when I started really researching it in earnest and finding out a bunch of things that I was always made to feel were personal flaws that made me a shitty, childish person were in fact documented symptoms of ADHD that I didn't understand. When I read the breakdown of what "executive function" is I cried for a long time. Finally, one of my worst demons had a name. It wasn't some shitty thing about me born of cowardice and worthlessness, it was my goddamn brain being weird and not working right, and me not understanding how to work with it. From there, I learned the names of other demons that have tormented me my entire life. Alexithymia. Rejection sensitive dysphoria. Sensory overload. Burnout. Emotional dysregulation. So many things that I'd never been told about and had no idea how to deal with. A place to start. I sought out an ADHD specialist to deal with it, and the anxiety and depression that came along with it.

I've been suicidal since I was 15, in and out of therapy since I was 16. What I mean by "suicidal" is that I think about suicide near-constantly. Most of the time nowadays I'm inured to it, it's like wallpaper, it's like "haha oh brain when will you learn that splattering yourself all over the wall is not the answer, now let's get in the shower to get ready for our job we hate." I used to cut myself when I was under a lot of stress at a grocery deli job when I was 19. I've had a loaded shotgun in my mouth, both hammers cocked. I fantasize about putting my head out the window on the freeway, rubbing it down like an eraser on the center concrete divider, yanking my head off and rolling it down the street like a bowling ball, being impaled by a piece of falling satellite debris, anything to keep it a ridiculous fantasy and not a practical way out of my unending pain. And I do mean pain. Chronic pain from flat feet and a fucked up knee and back and neck issues. Emotional pain from long-term social isolation, very few friends at any point in my life, zero romantic/sexual success despite tons of effort and varying approaches and "working on myself" for decades like everyone told me to with no results. I'm not a virgin, if it matters; I don't think it really does anymore. Favor arranged by a friend. Disappointing for a variety of reasons but... I digress. The real pain is never having been in a relationship, wondering just what the fuck is wrong with me, and learning to hate myself for this and a great number of other reasons over the years, never really knowing the root of my suffering. I really have felt worthless. Useless. I've internally compared myself to toilet paper: something that you keep around because you can use it, then you throw it away. Detestable otherwise. I've felt like it's a certainty I'll die alone never knowing a true friend, never feeling love. Never making anything of myself. Jumping from shit job to shit job, picking up non-transferable skills like knowing a lot about cameras in 2009, how video games are tested, how to make sausage, how to clean an industrial rotisserie grill and dump the chicken grease out of it, and the latest: how to fill out DMV paperwork for California in highly specific circumstances. Never feeling like I was worth much. Always feeling like my emotions were at best an inconvenience to others, that my interests were stupid and lame, and that I was always going to be a weirdo who makes everyone else uncomfortable so I should just hide myself away from the world, or remove myself from it entirely as a matter of moral duty.

I've had a lot of trauma in my life, some of which I've only recently come to terms with. When I was 6 I was inappropriately touched by another boy maybe a year older than me on a playdate, for instance. I felt like it was shameful and dirty, given my Catholic upbringing, and felt like it "didn't count" since I didn't resist, didn't really understand what was happening, and the perpetrator was, indeed, another boy around my age and not an adult. Just some touching, that's all. But the shame and guilt and fear I had associated with it festered in me for years, and it wasn't until I was reading The Body Keeps the Score last year and figured out that dwelling on this memory triggered panic symptoms in me that I said "hey maybe it does count" and talked to my therapist about it. I explored other threads of trauma in my past as well, realizing that yeah, it did fuck me up to have almost no friends, to never fit in, to be convinced I was inherently evil by a church that was at that time covering up mass child molestation. That's trauma. That's real. My fucking brain and body are telling me so. I also started taking seriously the notion that I had autism, like really focusing on it instead of letting be a stray thread of thought that I kept dismissing even though it kept surfacing like a DUNE sandworm sensing a plot development about to happen.

So what convinces me is that I get deeply upset by bright lights and chaotic overlapping voices, and just figured these were just annoyances everyone had to deal with, more or less, and pushed it all down. All of my social problems I attributed to just not paying attention and being "socially r-----ed" as I so eloquently put it as a younger man. I just thought I was cringey, and just dumb to not pay attention. I began to worry I was a sociopath or psychopath because of my "lack of empathy," since I had a hard time understanding why people feel the way they feel in the moment, needing to think about it later on to understand. As I explored the notion of being autistic -- or rather, AuDHD, which I say as "A U D H D" because "Audi HD" sounds like a European luxury sedan -- and relating very directly to more and more things people have posted both here and elsewhere on social media, directly labeling the thing I relate to as autism, an autistic thing that autistic autists diagnosed with autism by autism specialists do, and learned how a professional diagnosis can cost $2000 and often isn't covered by insurance if you're an adult, suddenly the notion that I'm autistic didn't sound so fucking crazy anymore.

So I stumbled on this book while looking for books on the tism, and looked up the author to make sure they weren't a quack. Lo and behold, I see his name loosely associated with Jessica McCabe, the How to ADHD girl, who has never steered me wrong on resources before. So I read this book, cried as I read through damn near every chapter, talked about it with my therapist again, who agreed that yeah, it's expensive as fuck to get assessed and probably not worth it in my circumstances, and instead steered me to some self-diagnostic tools that, as usual, all pinged me as autistic as fuck. The top-rated one (for accuracy, if you knew how to read it and interpret it, as far as separating the normies from the autistics [cool people big-cool ] goes) was the RAADS-R. The threshold for "autistic as fuck" is 160, I got a 165 on it. So, yeah, probably. Won't change much in how I treat it with regards to therapy and whatnot, but in terms of how I understand and interpret myself and my needs? Groundbreaking. Very much needed.

And so I saw the Bell Hooks threads and thought, fuck it, why not? I mentioned it, people said they were all for it, they started making threads in anticipation of it, and I thought, it helped me a lot, and it can continue to help me to come back to it and read it again. Why not do it with one of the most principled, accepting, and supportive communities I've ever encountered? Someone here could benefit. Maybe I could actually make a positive impact on someone else's life after all.

[-] KrasMazov@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I wish I could have written this sooner, specially now that you already made the next post, but I only really got the energy to do it now. I just wanted to say that you're extremely brave for sharing all of this here, I really mean it. To be able to expose yourself to other people like that is something I can only dream of being able to do one day. It's inspiring really.

I was bullied from a young age, always had trouble making friends my entire life. I’ve always felt ostracized, humiliated by my peers more than anything else, unable to relate.

Hell, this passage is basically my life, my childhood and my traumas. And it's tough, that much I know, specially being lonely.

It was difficult to read it all, both because I relate to some parts of it, and because It's fucked up that you had and still has to go through all of this.

I hope everything gets better for you comrade, despite this capitalistic hellscape we live in, we all deserve to live, to be happy and to be loved. care

If you have the time and is interested in, take a look at this video (from the little I tested, the english auto subtitles are good enough). It's about a recent ASD diagnosis of a brazilian comrade and him talking about his life. Despite so many different things, I never related so much and never felt so seen than with this video, I could barely hold myself together by the end of the video, and given what you wrote here, you might relate to it even more than I did.

[-] voight@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

I'm going to join on this account too as a kind of prestige class upgrade thing.

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

First off, maintenance post, I'm reposting the tags here in a comment to make them work. Apologies for anyone who already posted, but I don't want anyone to miss out.

Some folks have asked how this will work. This post was kind of testing the waters on that. I've had a chance to read everyone's responses and I'll post my own in a moment, in another comment. How this works is pretty simple: I'll make a thread for each chapter, repost the tag list to keep everyone alerted to it, post a basic overview of the chapter, some of my own initial thoughts, and some discussion questions to try and get some interesting conversations started. As expected, lots of people had serious k-pain denji-just-like-me dubois-depressed reactions to the contents of this intro, and even I had a hard time re-reading it, so I figured I'd give everyone a chance to get acquainted with what's in store before they strap in for the unexpected emotional roller coaster this book can be if you're neurodivergent or even just love someone who is. As the book explores, autism is poorly understood even among the medical community. That's not hard to understand when you look at the diagnostic criteria and the list of symptoms are like "poor eye contact" "monotone voice" "bad social skills" "what is this fucking guy's problem" "get a load of this fucking dork" "I'm annoyed, medically, as a doctor" etc. rather than focusing on the internal experience of what it's like to be autistic. large-adult-son

So join us on this enlightening and at times horrifying and agonizing journey through Unmasking Autism, a book about how much it fucking sucks to be neurodivergent in a society that cruelly punishes deviation from the norm or inefficiencies on the generation of profit for the people who can take away your healthcare if you talk back to them. Healthcare, which, if you're an American over the age of 18, pretty much tells you to get fucked when it comes to any sort of assistance. The book covers this too.

The tags:

CARCOSA@hexbear.net , I was asked to tag you for a sticky on this. I think it might have been stickied before and then unstickied; I'd like it stickied until I can get the Chapter 1 post together in the next day or two, if possible. Thanks.

The following folks asked to be tagged:

ReadFanon@hexbear.net

Othello@hexbear.net

Wertheimer@hexbear.net

roux@hexbear.net

voight@hexbear.net

LarsAdultsen@hexbear.net

BreadMaster5000@hexbear.net

NoLeftLeftWhereILive@hexbear.net

Pluto@hexbear.net

PointAndClique@hexbear.net

Jobasha@hexbear.net

FodlegBob@hexbear.net

Magician@hexbear.net

ByteFoolish@hexbear.net

YearOfTheCommieDesktop@hexbear.net

Orannis62@hexbear.net

homhom9000@hexbear.net

the_itsb@hexbear.net

optissima@lemmy.ml

AdmiralDoohickey@lemmygrad.ml

AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml

[-] sovietknuckles@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

Is anyone else ready for Chapter 1? I was sort of looking forward to Hexbear reading this

[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 4 points 7 months ago

call me out why don't you cri

this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024

80 points (100.0% liked)

neurodiverse

1592 readers

50 users here now

What is Neurodivergence?

It's ADHD, Autism, OCD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, aspd, etc etc etc etc

“neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior”

So, it’s very broad, if you feel like it describes you then it does as far as we're concerned

Rules

1.) ableist language=post or comment will probably get removed (enforced case by case, some comments will be removed and restored due to complex situations). repeated use of ableist language=banned from comm and possibly site depending on severity. properly tagged posts with CW can use them for the purposes of discussing them

2.) always assume good faith when dealing with a fellow nd comrade especially due to lack of social awareness being a common symptom of neurodivergence

2.5) right to disengage is rigidly enforced. violations will get you purged from the comm. see rule 3 for explanation on appeals

3.) no talking over nd comrades about things you haven't personally experienced as a neurotypical chapo, you will be purged. If you're ND it is absolutely fine to give your own perspective if it conflicts with another's, but do so with empathy and the intention to learn about each other, not prove who's experience is valid. Appeal process is like appealing in user union but you dm the nd comrade you talked over with your appeal (so make it a good one) and then dm the mods with screenshot proof that you resolved it. fake screenies will get you banned from the site, we will confirm with the comrade you dm'd.

3.5) everyone has their own lived experiences, and to invalidate them is to post cringe. comments will be removed on a case by case basis depending on determined level of awareness and faith

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