this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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The GOP made the same bargain the Prussian generals made in 1933 — and the consequence is their total destruction

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[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 102 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They already were...

trump is a giant piece of shit, but putting all the GOP's failures on trump makes it sound like when he goes away, everything will be fine.

That's as stupid as Biden thinking without Obama in office, they'd suddenly want to compromise and help Americans.

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Though I do think if/when Trump goes away that things do get better. It's this old problem with nearly every movement is that without great organization and buraucracy, the movement dies with the charismatic leader. The MAGA cultists will certainly still be around but they'll find themselves with no one to rally around and god knows Trump and the GOP are doing nothing to systematize their movement because 1. they're not that organized and 2. they have no platform to systematize anyway.

So yeah I think you're right that the base problems are still there but much of the power they have now is in Trump and would go away with him.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Nah. Trump is a pretty bad symptom, but the whole party had been infected for a while. Hell, there could have easily been a Trump like candidate in 2012 if one of those candidates understood media like Trump did.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Trump doesn't understand shit. He just loves attention and will say things that get a reaction.

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So in other words; he understands media.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No, he's a malignant narcissist idiot savant self promoter.

Having the combination of a constant need for self-promotion, no self-awareness and absolute shamelessness is ideal for a cult leader, but it doesn't make him smart.

To quote one of the people who know his level of intelligence and understanding best, he's a fucking moron.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We aren't saying he is smart, just that he understands media, especially compared to other Republican presidential candidates.

[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it is sort of like how toddlers "understand" how to manipulate parents. Or cats and owners.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 1 year ago

That would be a good analogy. It isn't a great higher level understanding, but it is effective.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Understanding requires conscious reflection and analysis. He hasn't done either since the 80s at the latest.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, he’s a malignant narcissist idiot savant self promoter.

That's what understanding media is, though.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

No. There's no "understanding" about it. It's as instinctive as a fish swimming or a wasp (either kind) ruining someone's day.

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I mean none of this happens in a vaccuum so of course Trump doesn't happen if the GOP hadn't aligned this electorate through fearmongering and culture war BS for decades. But the identity of the party today also depends on Trump - like, can you name one person in the GOP with the kind of sick charisma he has that could stoke the base the way he has? There are many that try but apparently Trump's ability to rile up the base is not easily replicated so without him around they have less influence over the base. That is why I think without him they would be weakened.

[–] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

I agree with you and think infected is the correct term. Republicans are infected with dark money and Kompromat.

I think Trump is a nothing more than a hammer, a dull blunt instrument.

Putin is wielding the hammer.

[–] Raiderkev@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I doubt it. There's plenty of grifters in that circle ready to jump into the spotlight. Don Jr I'd imagine would be the next in line, followed by Kushner, and the like.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Though I do think if/when Trump goes away that things do get better

What is the most recent example of republicans "getting better"?

I'd like to say for Dems it was Clinton to Obama, but did it really?

The harsh reality is republicans have been in free fall for generations, and Dems just jumped out of the plane a couple minutes later.

The quality of both keeps dropping, and while D will always be better than R, that's obviously not enough.

So yeah I think you’re right that the base problems are still there but much of the power they have now is in Trump and would go away with him.

They said the same after Nixon, Reagan, HW Bush, and little Bush....

Their power is our political system where unpopulated states are overly represented on the federal level. At the bare minimum we need to unfreeze the House so at least one part is tied to population rather than number of states.

People in flyover states can have 10x the reprentation as someone from a populous state, and that's in the House.

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Well I said 'things will get better' meaning overall I think the world is better and the GOP as it is without Trump has less of a grip on their electorate. I definitely don't think the GOP gets better as I said: 'the base problems are still there'.

[–] FunderPants@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

Yea I'm getting tired of the rose coloured glasses people have for conservatism. Like no, they were awful yesterday too.

[–] drislands@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I advise you give the article a read. It's not blaming Trump for the GOP's failures as much as it's making it clear they've lost control of the party in a big way.

[–] nvvp@discuss.tchncs.de 57 points 1 year ago (4 children)

So much for the myth of American individualism; those who bray about it the loudest are the most ardent conformists, always adjusting their opinions to the party line and forever on the lookout for heresy among their peers. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, a petty mob mentality par excellence, exemplifies this behavior: "Not only do we support President Trump, we support his policies, and any Republican that isn't willing to adapt [sic] these policies we are completely eradicating from the party."

This is the core of it. Even the ones who dared to criticize Trump after Jan. 6 walked it back once they realized the masses of his fans were still loyal to the orange crown. Trump will own the Republican party until he is dead because his fans won't turn on him under any circumstances.

[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Since his fans believe what they want to believe he might be alive forever, I mean there were people on a street waiting for J.F. Kennedy to come back because they believe he didn't die or something. I am not sure if they can get Trump out of the GOP ever again.

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

John Jr, but your point stands.

[–] JungleJim@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

That's a scary thought, especially with deep fakes getting better all the time.

[–] Donjuanme@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The emperor has no clothes, but the audience can't be bothered to read a elementary school level book.

[–] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

The emperor has no clothes, but the audience can't be bothered to read a elementary school level book.

They heard there was a book about a naked man in the children’s section and shut down the library.

[–] Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I wish I were optimistic enough to believe his death will do anything other than further radicalize the party. Even if he choked to death on a Big Mac on live TV, they'd blame the Jews or athiests or antifa or immigrants or whomever the villain du jour is that week.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago

Well, their implementation of it anyway. Tbf, their implementation of anything does not work:-P.

[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I’m not often in favour of the use of force, but the MAGA GOP and all its horrible circus are not doing anything in good faith and I do not think the game should continue if they aren’t going to play by the rules.

Imagine a basketball game where one team refused to dribble and used ladders to score, but the ref refused to do anything because of some made up technicalities.

[–] PwnTra1n@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

“Nowhere in the constitution does it say a dog can’t be president”

[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

“No no! It was a misspelling! They meant to say ‘In Sir’s Rectum-ist’.

Now my client, President Trump, does not, nor ever has liked anal sex! At least not in HIS Anus. So therefore he is still eligible to run for office once more!

Must I, your honour, bring up the fact that if you slightly misspell former President Barrack Obama’s name you can get ‘O-bum-a’?!?! And HE was given two terms in office even though his name was CLEARLY implicating him in butt-stuff!!!”

  • some Trump lawyer, soon.
[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago

This is ridiculous! Why, every one of those words is perfectly spelled.

Cow coud a Trumfp law-persun du that? Hre in teh Unites States, we r great against!

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Imagine a basketball game where one team refused to dribble and used ladders to score

Isn't that just the Harlem Globetrotters?

[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Make Harlem Great Again

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Except they couldn't cause the fans would get so pissed they'd probably riot in the stadium. Hmmm.....

[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's no accident that Trump is a heavy favorite of professional wrestling fans.

[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 1 points 1 year ago

Well… something to do with brain damage ?

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

The GOP kind of asked for Trump to become this person. They're all sick people who take pleasure in exploiting people. They're all the same and can burn in hell.

[–] _sideffect@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

It was hidden deep inside them all along 😊

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He found all of the sexual deviants in the GOP, got photographic/digital forensic proof, and is blackmailing them?

[–] EchoCranium@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago

Unless they are all closeted homosexuals, blackmail is useless at this point. They've seen that the base will punch the ticket for every "R" candidate regardless of any transgression aside from being gay or trying to work across the aisle.

[–] reverendz@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It’s the natural evolution of capitalism to descend into imperialism and fascism. The republicans, or ‘classical liberals’ are just the vanguard, while the dems, or ‘neoliberals’ are the brake.

At best the dems are just slowing the speed of the descent. But without a systemic change, it’s inevitable.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

The republicans, or ‘classical liberals’ are just the vanguard, while the dems, or ‘neoliberals’ are the brake.

Neoliberals aren't the brake; they're the pawl to the fascists' ratchet. Their function isn't to slow it down, but rather to stop the left from pulling it back.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fascism doesn't have a "revolutionary vanguard" to usher in its final form like communist theory. Read "Ur-Fascism" by Umberto Eco for a good rundown of how fascism takes hold.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

Many fascist movements fade away with time. We tend to only focus on the ones that got power, because that's when things go to shit. The ones that just fade away are boring and don't get talked about much. Selection bias applied to history leads people to believe that there's inevitability to things when there really isn't.

Odds are Biden will win the election, Trump ends up in a prison cell, there's some violence by some of the MAGAs but it's easily put down, support for MAGA dies off. Of course this isn't inevitable either, even a low probability of Trump becoming President again is scary and people should make an effort to prevent that from happening.

Saying that Trump winning is inevitable is simply not true, and only serves to demotivate people that might otherwise make an effort to prevent that outcome.

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Natural evolution? What? When has late stage capitalism happened before now? And the analogy doesn't even hold up. Whack comment.

[–] theparadox@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The analogy might be questionable, but the logical and inevitable conclusion of capitalism (markets and the profit motive) is the continued accumulation of power/wealth by those who own the means of production.

Barring very strong regulation that somehow manages to avoid capture or a perpetually benevolent ruling class it becomes defacto fascism.

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

A mix of greed, lack of morals, and sensitive kompromat serve as very efficient motivations

[–] drmeanfeel@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

They'd be lost without a boot to gag upon